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Post by JediCheese on Aug 5, 2013 18:18:46 GMT -5
Do you have a link to his twitter feed (or this specific tweet)?
Looks good. I do have three questions about the deck:
1) Does it run enough swamps to make effective use of Mutilate?
2) A singleton Disciple of Bolas? I have found him to be amazing and I would likely want to run two of him at least.
3) A singleton Forest? I don't know how often you'll want to draw this forest because he already runs 10 green sources and needs double black turn 2 and needs as many swamps as possible to make Mutilate as good as possible.
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Post by John Galli on Aug 5, 2013 18:44:14 GMT -5
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 5, 2013 18:51:47 GMT -5
Appreciate it. I've been looking for a deck for Game Day (about the only time I play Standard) and this hit at just the right time. Also I've been updating my blog this weekend and this makes a well timed 'Magical Monday' post and I would like to give credit where credit is due  |
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 7, 2013 0:40:10 GMT -5
This deck is the real deal. I went 3-0 tonight.
Chaining Liliana of the Veils is such a backbreaking move, it feels unfair. Oh look, I'm tired of this Liliana and have screwed you enough with her, let me play out a new Liliana to fuck you with! There is no longer a worry when using Liliana that you'll be stuck with her in play with nothing to do and an extra in hand.
Game 1 vs some homebrew green beast deck:
Lifebane Zombie is amazing vs these random decks. He neuters their gameplan so effectively. The deck was a homebrew and there was little effort in finishing him off.
Game 2 vs U/W:
This is exactly what I was looking forward to, except he wasn't playing Restoration Angel or Snapcaster Mage. Game one I ran him out of cards and won with Mutavault attacks. Mutavault was amazing. Game two pithing needle hit Mutavault and eventually he got enough value out of his cards to put me down with an Aetherling. Game three we started with two minutes left before turns. I stomped him with T1 Deathrite Shaman, T2 Duress + Deathrite Shaman, T3 Liliana. I ended up eating his graveyard and beating down with Mutavault killing him on the last turn (for exactly his life total)! It was a situation where I needed to play exactly correct to kill him.
Game 3 vs Humans:
Game one I pulled a god hand and he mulliganed down to 6 and only got 3 actual cards. Game two he went Champion of the Parish T1 and Thalia T2 (with a T3 double strike soulbonding dude). I couldn't do anything. Game 3 I got a bunch of removal, hit him twice with a Desecration Demon before using a Desciple of Bolas to eat the Demon and refill my grip. It did get scary at one point because he played the 5x 1/1 token sorcery and then started pumping them with Gavony Township. Ripped a Ratchet Bomb off to put an end to those shenanigans (I had mutilate but it would wipe part of my team) and then ate his graveyard with Scavenging Ooze for fatal.
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Post by John Galli on Aug 7, 2013 8:43:12 GMT -5
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 8, 2013 4:27:21 GMT -5
MOAR NUBSTOMPING!
Went 3-1 and then drew into top 8. In top 8 one guy didn't want to draw so we had to play out each round. Stomped my way though the top 8 and got 1st (about 3 hours that I'll never get back).
The deck is amazing to play but I forgot how tedious standard is to play. Which 2-3 colors is your opponent playing and which 5-10 of the power cards from each of those colors is he playing? Running Thragtusks into each other and the flurry of Tragic Slips when something dies. Plus if you stumble even a bit, your opponent runs you over.
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Post by John Galli on Aug 8, 2013 6:29:21 GMT -5
Damn I wish we had top 8s at our local tourneys. Sounds like fun and nice job man. And yes, that deck is a curb stomp
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 8, 2013 7:15:18 GMT -5
I have a love/hate thing for cutting to top 8. I love it because you can actually play vs the good players and not have the people trying random stuff interfere with standings. The fact that your two first rounds were random decks that promptly lose out doesn't ruin you once you are in Top 8.
On the other hand, it takes forever to finish. The tournament started at 7 PM and I didn't get out of there till 2 AM. And three hours later I'm at work. I would have been fine with cut to standings (or split top 8 for 6 packs apiece) at midnight...
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 8, 2013 7:53:34 GMT -5
Also, what's with the U/W/x decks not running Snapcaster Mage? I constantly worried about getting blown out by this guy but I didn't see him all night long.
Also, the UWR player in the finals was complaining about all my Planeswalkers. This deck runs 5 planeswalkers post board and has three underworld connections. The first game in the match I paid 17 life with Underworld Connections and died to a Warleader's Helix (I mean seriously?). That game I drew 1 Liliana, 3/4 of my lands, and no Thragtusks. Thank god that games 2 and 3 I boarded out my removal and put in as many 2 for 1's as possible.
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Post by John Galli on Aug 8, 2013 8:24:07 GMT -5
@2am - Wow that's late. Yeah I guess I wouldn't want it to go to top 8 if it was going to be that way on a weekday night, as I definitely wouldn't play. Cutting to top 4 seems more reasonable and starting earlier.
We have a win-a-box here on Tuesdays that starts at 6:30, but unfortunately they have no playoff system, so I've often been 3-0 and paired down in the last round so that even when I go 4-0 I don't win a box. It's a really lame thing to have no breakers on this.
@snapcaster Mage - He's in most builds, but there is a distinction between UWR decks that are either "Control" or "Midrange". Some run heavy creatures, others are more draw-go. Usually Snapcaster isn't a 4-of anyway, somewhere in the 2-3 range is typical. He's your 5th,6th,7th of whatever spell, and most of the time you need to draw live action in this format as you've seen, so thus the reason to go sans playset.
@planeswalkers - Control decks have a lot of problems with them because they run few maindeck answers, specifically cards like Garruk which generate a continual stream of bodies.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Aug 8, 2013 8:31:56 GMT -5
@standard being tedious: It's bound to happen that way with no combo decks like Sneak Show, Storm, Twin etc. As much as I dislike playing those non-interactive games, I'd much rather have them in the format to keep people honest than have every game turn into a mid-range war of attrition...
...which leads nicely into my next point: why I love the Golgari list. It has three of the most popular creatures in the format (Ooze, Thrag and Lifebane), plus it can go over the top with Demons. Finally, I love the fact that the planeswalker of choice (Liliana) is expendable, unlike other control decks that go so far out of their way to protect them.
@cutting to top 8: Not sure how I feel about it as it hasn't happened to me yet. Would it make a difference if they cut to top 4?
@no Snapcasters: I don't really get that, either. I see lists all over the place running 1 or less and 25 instants/sorceries...isn't that what makes him so good?
@planeswalkers: Almost every match I lost when I played Esper control was due to my opponent resolving a planeswalker (despite the four Lingering Souls I ran). I think it's the biggest advantage that UWR has over Esper: the removal spells can hit planeswalkers. If someone resolved a Garruk of any kind against me, I pretty much had to scoop right there.
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 8, 2013 8:46:52 GMT -5
As to cutting to top 8, it only happens on Wednesday (and FNM) if they get enough players. The only reason I played in this tournament is I want to test this deck before Game Day.
On Tuesday they run a 3 round tournament for $3 entry fee. The prize payout is 1 pack to 2-1 and 3 packs for 3-0.
It's funny you should mention Garruk and his steady stream of creatures. In the quarter finals, I was playing vs Jund and the steady stream of 3/3 from Garruk, Primal Hunter was overwhelming (game 1 and it would have made game 3 much more difficult if the opponent didn't misplay).
I caught a lucky break game 3 where he screwed up his life total and misplayed. The opponent and I were friends and it was late so he decided to use my notes for life totals. I had a 7/7 scavenging Ooze on the board and a Liliana at 2 loyalty and I knew he had a Garruk, Primal Hunter in hand with 6 lands in play. I had him marked at 6 life but he misread the life totals on my pad (he didn't ask, just looked at the pad upside down) and thought he was at 13 (which was crossed out). He drew for turn and dropped the Garruk leaving a black mana up, made a 3/3 and passed. I edict'ed his token and then attacked for fatal (he assumed I would attack Garruk because he thought my attack wasn't fatal due to the misread life count). He did have Abrupt Decay to remove my creature if he didn't play the Garruk.
I have found that most decks do poorly vs this deck unless they get a planeswalker. This deck has almost no way of winning through a steady stream of tokens that are created by a planeswalker. Garruk or Sorin usually result in a loss for the deck. I'm tempted to put Garruk, Relentless in the SB to further shore up control matches.
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Post by JediCheese on Aug 8, 2013 9:13:39 GMT -5
Sorry, didn't see your post Travis.
@t4, I wouldn't mind cutting to T4. They will cut to T4 if there are less than 16 players (I think, I don't play constructed much).
I really like to split after the cut. The people that made the cut did well, and is it really worth playing another hour for 2 extra packs when it's midnight? It's not like anyone that rises to T8 in a 40 man tournament is bad or playing some random scrub deck. Plus with good play the percentage is pretty close to 50/50 for most matchups (unless you broke the format, in which case you should be driving to the nearest SCG tournament or GP to earn some serious money for your time). It's just gambling that you have a slight edge.
@no Snapcasters. I know! Especially with some other decks starting to run Mutavault or vs an un-pumped Scavenging Ooze. Hell, even having Sphinx's Revelation number 5 is backbreaking! And while only targeting an Azorious Chart isn't great, it definitely nets you a solid advantage.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Aug 8, 2013 9:39:09 GMT -5
Yeah, an opposing planeswalker is pretty tough. Luckily there are multiple Duresses, a Needle and an Vraska in the board, and Mutilate + Demon should wipe them out. Maybe you add another Vraska if walkers are really getting the better of you?
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Post by John Galli on Aug 8, 2013 16:42:40 GMT -5
One card that is not being used but was absolutely BONKERS in my Pack Rat deck was Veilborn Ghoul. I know most will immediately dismiss the card or think that Underworld Connections is enough, but let me tell you if you're thinking of the control matchup or any slow matchup in general, this card is a complete house in combination with Liliana of the Veil and on it's own.
Play a swamp, return him to hand. Beat for 4 if needed on an empty board after a Mutilate or Supreme Verdict. Pitch to Liliy, rinse and repeat. Etc. The only card that you'd have to watch for is Pillar, but most of the time that would be either sided out or used on one of your other guys.
Just a food for thought sideboard card as a 1 or 2 of. It was an absolute beast for me when I played the Mono Black deck.
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