New Extended format info

[Travis Lannoye]

Hey all,

I've spoken to a couple of you about this personally, but just in case, here's all the information on the new Extended format.

What it is:
- The format will include all sets from Lorwyn block through Scars of Mirrodin block.
- The format will be featured in the next season of upcoming PTQs.
- The gauntlet of "decks to beat" includes familiar foes like Faeries, 5-color control, and Jund, as well as newcomers like Tempered Steel aggro and Prismatic Omen/Valakut/Wargate (which are pretty self-explanatory).

Why do we care:
- This format features a whole slew of decks that are very familiar to anyone who has played competitively in the past few years.
- Anyone who still has a ton of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor/Scars cards would be in a good position to play anything they wanted to play.
- There isn't much new information to absorb because most of the good decks are old favorites that we've all seen and played against many times.

So, if anyone out there would be interested in playing some major events again, this would be the perfect time to do so. I've already started brewing up some possible ideas based on what I have left from the good ol' days.

[crazedferret]

In looking at the decks, I'm leaning towards Elementals. There are a couple of interesting elementals that could easily strengthen certain matchups. Against control and fairies, you have Gaeia's Revenge as a ridiculously strong contender and cloudthresher as well as summoning trap to seal the deal.

Verse valakut the only thing I can think of is leyline, which I don't think is quite enough to lock that game down. Fulminator will be run in the main probably as a 4 of as just about every deck I've seen so far runs at least half nonbasics so it is almost never a dead card. Other versions of valakut will have cryptic command as a bounce spell so leyline is not quite as useful. Maybe the blue guy that counters and puts a -1-1 counter?

Jund was fairly equal if I remember correctly. It still will have a shakey mana base. That aspect won't change and so Fulminator will be great. Then a resolved reveillark (4 of) was usually game verse jund as that gives me a ton of setup to work with. I'm debating the need for the previous strategy of soul wardens, forge tenders, and ranger of eos. I think there is enough good new stuff to forget about this. There is one elemental which could be extremely good in conjunction with soul warden---- Avenger of zendikar. This might be a solid way to combat jund and valakut, but needs testing. Maybe doomgape? sac doomgape for ten life?

Verse other fast decks either something like path or crib swap or nameless inversion needs to be available. (will have one crib swap main as well as one shriekmaw or nameless inversion) Either that or pyroclasm, fallout or the other one for three that hits fliers or ground, but I'd rather not nuke my guys. Possibly ashling the pilgrim as board wipe if needed.

Another possibility, body double mirror entity shenanigans? But I'm not entirely sure what to use to seal the deal with that combo. Infinite life with soul warden here would put me way out of the range of valakut players. That is if I have enough time to set that up.

Also a possibility, fauna shaman, discard an elemental to fetch a tool creature (could get body double with this or ranger of eos if I go that way) or reveillark/horde for recurring that creature I just pitched. I don't think vengevine is necessary for this.

These are my current thoughts and I think it is pretty solid so far in terms of potential.

[Travis Lannoye]

Pretty sure that Body Double is not legal in Extended.

Fulminator Mage sounds like it will be one of the better cards, as it will almost always have a target by turn three, and it's easy to bring back with Larks and Hordes. If I were going to play Elementals, I would just focus on casting those three spells as often as possible.

Gaea's Revenge is a nice try, but it's extremely slow. Being uncounterable and untargetable does not necessarily mean that it will get home. Faeries are good because they are constantly disrupting your plans, whether they are tapping you out on your upkeep with Mistbind Clique, disrupting your draw step with Vendilion Clique, or tapping your whole untargetable team of Gaea's Revenge and Great Sable Stag with Cryptic Command, it won't matter that your 7-drop is uncounterable or untargetable. Hell, I saw a guy last night playing Consuming Vapors in his Fae deck, and all Fae decks today run at least 1 copy of Wurmcoil Engine main-deck, which trades very easily with Gaea's Revenge.

EDIT: Against Valakut decks, Fulminator Mage is probably fine. Besides Valakut, they also use a lot of other non-basic lands, like Flooded Grove and Celestial Colonnade, so Fulminating their lands should be fine. Leyline of Sanctity is also a solid card, and a pretty good catch-all against a lot of random things you didn't know you needed to guard against (every mill/discard spell, big Jace's Fateseal ability, Ajani Vengeant's ultimate, Liliana's discard, other random planeswalker abilities). I personally put four Leylines in the board of every white deck just for the general utility.

[crazedferret]

I have played the deck enough to know the capabilities of the deck. Cloudthreshers were always good verse them as they can be evoked early and flashed in end of turn. So they need to be at least a 3 of. Gaeia's revenge basically says on the card that you can't do much of anything about taking 8 damage. I know the mana cost is steep, but I'd be looking to soulstoke it in early game for 9 damage uncounterable and untargetable and either flat out cast them or res them via horde late game. It's a play early that would force a cryptic if they didn't have anything else to block or for them to block with their precious first couple turn faieries, and a recurring solid threat late game that they can't do much about. I think certainly as a tutorable one of, it would be worth a shot. I'm not concerned about wurm coil due to crib swap. It will get removed and they will have no tokens except the crib swap token (unforunately a fairie as well).

I will have leyline, however, I feel like it needs a back up card for support to ensure it stays in play. That's why I was thinking about that counter guy that can be larked back in play

Are you sure about body double? I looked at the gatherer the other night put in extended cards and typed in body double and it came up? Maybe gatherer is not updated yet?

I am concerned about a couple of cards though, opposing fulminators and anathemancers could be problematic as I will have a large quantity of non basics as well. I do run some ramp though so maybe I'm alright verse fulminators. Anathemancer targets so leyline would be useful, but I'm not sure I'd want those in verse jund. Would have to check this.

[Travis Lannoye]

I'd say that Leyline is probably fine against Jund. They have Anathemancers, Blightnings, and Thoughtseize/Duress/Memoricide/discard shenanigans, and they can only blow up Leylines with Maelstrom Pulse. Just make sure you only play one at a time.

Per Gatherer, Body Double is not legal in Extended. Here's the link: gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=124443

Forgot about Cloudthresher...that card is obviously quite good against Faes. Also forgot about Crib Swap against Wurmcoil Engine. As for Gaea's Revenge, they can still V-Clique it or cast Cryptic Command to tap it down, or just chump it with Blossom tokens. I think between Fulminators and Cloudthreshers, that should be enough. Can't focus everything on beating one matchup.

Not much you can do against opposing Fulminators. Do you plan on running both Smokebraiders and Bloom Tenders like some of the old Elementals decks used to run?

[crazedferret]

The deck needs to run both smokebraiders and bloom tenders. Bloom tender is too good with horde not to play. Once a horde is on board, that guy says tap to recur something fun. I believe I only ran it as a 3 of last time though. Those should help out some verse other LD decks. As for the revenge, I wouldn't be playing more than 1-2 so it is not like I'm devoting everything to that matchup, the cloudthreshers most likely will be in the main as a 3 of with probably 1 more in side. The revenge is very difficult for them to remove once it hits play, and that is the point. Kinda like the sable stags, but it is tutorable meaning I will be able to grab it and play it and also recur it.

Here is a tentative list, play testing will update wether or not I need to run some sort of life gain package.

smokebraider x4
shriekmaw x1
muldrifter x4
Fulminator mage x4
Flamekin harbinger x3
Reveillark x4
horde of notions x4
incandescent soulstoke x4
bloomtender x3
cloudthresher x3
cribswap x1
gaeia’s revenge x1

25 lands
Primal beyond x4
Exotic orchard x1
Vivid grove x2
Vivid crag x4
Reflecting pool x4
Ancient zig x2
Forests x2
Mountains x3
Island x1
Plains x1
Swamp x1

SB
1x ashling the pilgrim
1x wispmare
1x cloudthresher
4x leyline of sanctity
3x Nameless inversion or x2 nameless 1x crib swap or 3x path
4x glen elendra archmage
1x clone? ingot chewer?

I'm debating the need for ranger soul warden shenanegans in the side. I also don't remember the exact land base I had, so there may be too many basics in that list.

[Travis Lannoye]

The main deck looks pretty good. Only thing I would suggest is cutting a couple Cloudthreshers in favor of a few more silver bullets.

The mana base should probably have 4 Ancient Ziggurats.

Other than that, it looks pretty good. Can't wait to test against it.

[crazedferret]

The reason for only 2 zigs is that that card more often than not gets in the way. If I need a third turn crib swap when I only have three mana? or if I get a third turn horde and try to recur fourth turn-----It's definitely in the way. I try to soulstoke something in? Having too many of that card really disrupts the flow of the deck. I'd rather cut back on those and play more of either vivid lands or exotic orchards. Also what silver bullets are you referring too? All's I can think of is sable stag and I already have a chunk devoted to that matchup. The cloudthreshers are an important part of that defense. I might need life gain of some sort too.

[Travis Lannoye]

I'm really just speculating at this point...these are all things that we should really find out by playing some games. Maybe a Sunday night session, or this coming Tuesday?

[John Galli]

Ahh Elementals. Such an awesome deck.

Here's my two cents so far-

First, I wouldn't take old comparisons of matchup play with too much weight when judging how the deck will do, as the main archetypes have changed a lot since we rolled with Elementals. Jund and Faeries have both gotten a lot stronger since that Regionals event (in fact Jund was born at that event), so what may have been effective then may not be so effective now. That said, I think elementals could be very good, it's just a matter of obviously finding the proper build. The fact that it's a toolbox deck will always give it some credo as a possibility worth toying with.

Some cards that I think need to have serious discussion / consideration-

Clone
Makeshift Mannequin

Both of these had their role in the deck previously, Clone mostly on Pat's part, and Makeshift Mannequin was heavily used in extended decks across the board. I think Clone actually got stronger since it's previous use, as not only do you have a bunch of silver bullets worth cloning, but you also now have some absolutely absurd creatures to clone from your opponent's side of the table. Titans, Avenger of Zendikar, Fauna Shaman, etc. Shit can get ridiculous.

Speaking of which -

Fauna Shaman

Lets not forget about her. She's already used in the extended naya decks, and she's an AWESOME option in elementals. Yes you have harbinger, but this is more about getting guys into your yard, especially if you end up using makeshift mannequin. It also gets guys right into your hand, not on top of your library. When you're playing a silver bullet toolbox, this is money.

Card draw in the deck (aka x4 mulldrifter) might not be as necessary as it once was. Don't get me wrong, he's my favorite elemental and one of my all time favorite magic cards, and I think he deserves a spot, but I'm not sure if x4 is a must any longer. You're going to be playing with some serious power these days, so the gas might provide itself.

Besieged should bring some additional cards that are worthwhile, such as Thrun, which is strictly better than Gaea's Revenge (even though he's an elemental). Also, don't forget about Obstinate Baloth as a sideboard card against Jund, or even maindeck if Blightning is still popular.

The list you had-

smokebraider x4
shriekmaw x1
muldrifter x4
Fulminator mage x4
Flamekin harbinger x3
Reveillark x4
horde of notions x4
incandescent soulstoke x4
bloomtender x3
cloudthresher x3
cribswap x1
gaeia’s revenge x1

Cards I'm not liking-

- 2 or 4 Mulldrifter, - 2 or 4 Fulminator (I realize he's ok, but he's also terrible against fast aggro), harbinger (the number seems off), -1 Reveillark, -1 or 2 Soulstoke, -1 or 2 Thresher, -1 gaea's revenge, +2 Ancient Ziggurat.

These are cuts that are hard, but the room would give some space to tinker. Cards like the ones I mentioned above are always in consideration. Crib Swap is a great card in elementals, and might even be worthy of a 2-of. Don't forget it's usefulness against Mistbind Clique with champion on the stack.

There's a lot more to say but I'd have to do some deep thinking before coming up with a list.

Edit**

Also don't forget about

Eyes of the Wisent (sideboard)
Declaration of Naught (sideboard)
Primal Command

Here's Bucher's last list before the deck ended-


Maindeck:

Creatures
4 Bloom Tender
1 Cloudthresher
4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Mulldrifter
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Reveillark
4 Smokebraider
4 Soul Warden

Legendary Creatures
3 Horde of Notions


Tribal Instants
1 Crib Swap

Basic Lands
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Exotic Orchard
4 Primal Beyond
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Grove
2 Vivid Meadow
Sideboard:

4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Cloudthresher
1 Shriekmaw
3 Spellbreaker Behemoth
1 Horde of Notions
1 Nameless Inversion

[crazedferret]

First, I agree with not taking the old match-ups with too much weight; however, I don't think that I should throw away all my experience playing this deck just because the match-ups this deck faced have changed a bit. They for the most part are the same general concepts and strategies that I will play against.

These are the decklists I found that top eighted extended in the most recent events.
U/W, U/B - pretty much the same concepts as standard iterations
4-Color Creul Control - Creul ult obviously
URG - pretty much control but with pestermite and splinter twin
patriot control- typical patriot list with AJani V's and jaces
Valakut (normal and prismatic omen kind which runs more like control),
Faeries - typical but with a few new tricks like wurmcoil engine
Doran -typical
GW TRAP- uses lots of mana creatures to summoning trap out emrakul or straight up play him
Jund - looks like what you'd expect, blightning, bloodbraid, and demigod of revenge
Mythic Conscription- same as it was before minus baneslayer as it doesn't compare to titans
OOZE Combo- basically quillspike combo but using the oozes to get the combo off instead
RDW - take all the best cards from before and mash it with all the best cards now and that is the updated list
Tempered Steel - current iteration of metal men, blitz out artifacts and play out tempered steel.
VengeVine Naya - what you'd expect
Elves - SEE RDW description
Wargate (valakut) basically valakut control version using wargate to find pieces.

ok so to highlight the ideas inherent in my first list so that you know what I'm thinking about....

Muldrifter was the feul for the deck, the games I usually lost were the ones that I didn't pull a mulldrifter and abuse the hell out of it. It absolutley needs to be there, but I could see it as a 2-3 of if I bump up the harbinger or play the fauna shaman.

Fulminator also needs to be there as each and every deck that I have looked at online that has placed in a tourney has at the least half nonbasics. It will be a very important card. Obviously dependant on the match-up, but I'd prefer to stone rain people out of game one than to let them have a chance. I could also see it as a 3 of with 4 harbinger and a couple of shamans but would still prefer 4.

The harbinger at three could easily change to four, however, I don't want to be tempted to put things on top all of the time. That more or less can set the deck in the opponnents favor as there are a number of decks running a couple primal commands. If I end up trimming a couple of the other four ofs, I definitely will put that fourth back in.

I can see 3 reveillark, however, there were times in playing that deck that I definitely wanted a 4th. The same is true of Horde of notions. I could do 3 of's if i'm running 4 harbinger and some quantity of fauna shamans.

Soulstoke is a very important card for the deck. I played 3 last time and could see playing 3 again. This card is a powerhouse against control and easily helps power out goodies - reveillark and drifters in particular. Verse faeries in particular, being able to respond with a trigger that they can't stop is incredibly important.

Cloudthresher is also important. It needs to be there at the very least as a one of. Verse faeries it kills all their tokens and hastens their death to their own bitterblossom. After game one it needs to be available as at least a 3 of.

Gaeia's revenge is a trial concept. I need to run it a couple of times to see if it is worthwhile. Could be something to scrap or it could be awesome verse control. So it needs some testing. Other thoughts for testing are thornling (elemental) and avenger of zendikar (elemental)

I hated 4 ziggurats. I will not run 4. Multiples get in the way of using horde, I'd rather run more exotic orchards or vivids.

Makeshift mannequin was awesome every time I played it last time. I do kinda wanna put at least one back in.

I will be playing one clone. No exceptions. You can cut it in your list if you want, but that card easily made fourth copies of all my goodies.

It should be noted that while crib swap is quite good, it also makes changeling tokens for faeries players to abuse too. So obviously it needs to be used carefully, I remember getting beaten down by that swap token on several occasions.

I'm not sure if bucher's list is really what we should be looking at for the same reason you mentioned. The matchups have changed a bit. I'm still debating the need for the ranger soul warden strategy too. I think play testing will tell. It may also be possible if we run the shaman and a makeshift strategies to run it as a light toolbox option (2 ranger 2 soul warden in the main, 2 forgetender in the side)

Declaration of naught is an interesting thought, but I think I'd still prefer glen elendra for the recursion unless I run a flickerwisp like I did for fun a couple tuesday nights. I love primal command, not sure how well it fits in the deck, but I'm certainly willing to try it. I did not like eyes of the wisent last time, it just didn't seem to do enough. I'd be willing to give it a play test again, but I'm leaning towards no for the sideboard.

So with the new thoughts in mind here is another list....

Birds of paradise x4
-allows for a turn two vivid land alongside a one of several solid 2 drops, if it is a fauna shaman, then it enables me finding a fulminator mage and playing it the same turn. If I have fulminator mage, it allows me to keep blockers open and find reveillark easily.
-good blocker/mana source/removal target
-Speeds up the three drops (soulstoke, drifter, fulminator)
-Better 1 drop than harbinger, can summon via ranger or suitable discard to shaman
-could help it run more like mythic conscription in the first couple of turns, making it a must kill or die scenario.
Fauna shaman x3 makes too much sense not to include, might want 4
Ranger of eos x2 I think this probably should be in there especially with shaman and prevalence of a number of faster decks
soul warden x2 see ranger of eos
Makeshift Mannequin x1 excellent all around card, great with shaman, pitch and recur
shriekmaw x1
muldrifter x1 still consider it a must to have
Fulminator mage x3
Flamekin harbinger x2 - more ability to search this up with ranger and fauna shaman, although I'd probably not get this with the shaman. Shaman makes me shuffle too, so it may not be the most important anymore, still solid tutoring for the deck though
Reveillark x3
horde of notions x3
incandescent soulstoke x3
bloomtender x2
Smokebraider x3 more non elementals makes this not quite as good but still good
cloudthresher x1
cribswap x1
Clone x1

1x ashling the pilgrim -my recurable wrath for fast decks or decks that stall me out
1x wispmare -bitterblossom, prismatic omen and others
1x cloudthresher -mainly for faeries
4x leyline of sanctity -mainly for valakut decks - would consider other strategies that can get me out of range
3x Nameless inversion or x2 nameless 1x crib swap or 3x path - for fast decks
2x glen elendra archmage - recurring counterspell, protects the leylines from getting bounced
2x forge tender
1x ingot chewer - pretty sure a pithing needle would suck calling horde or soulstoke, or fauna shaman, plus tempered steel is a fast deck

Lotus cobra might be a good consideration as well but would need pretty much a complete re-envisioning of the mana base.