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Post by John Galli on Feb 23, 2011 13:58:06 GMT -5
cool, sounds good.
I had an imp, but it had PLAINS written across it in sharpe. I guess it was a plains.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 23, 2011 19:30:35 GMT -5
You're a Plains.
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Post by Zach on Feb 23, 2011 21:51:58 GMT -5
You're both plain.
HAH. See what I did there?
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Post by John Galli on Feb 24, 2011 22:57:43 GMT -5
You're an Island Zach.
I updated the OP with my newly revised Kresh list now that I got all the cards I ordered for both of my decks. Only change I'm considering right now is Elvish Harbinger over Cemetery Reaper. I like both cards, the Harbinger just digs for more in the deck. Also, if I managed to snag a Demonic Tutor at some point that would be cool.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 25, 2011 9:23:18 GMT -5
Demonic Tutor is probably the best black card in EDH. I have two copies in my two black decks, and I still want more copies. It's NEVER a bad card in any situation (ok, maybe something really obscure). Any deck that can play it is better off with it. Unfortunately, it's at least $6 online.
@harbinger vs. Reaper: I think it comes down to the tutoring ability of the Harbinger and whether or not you have enough quality Elf targets to dig up. It's a lot like Fierce Empath in that regard. Personally, the only fantastic Elf that I see in your list is Oracle of Mul Daya. On the flip side, I've seen people put Trinket Mage in their blue decks just to fetch Tops, so I could see you playing the Harbinger just to dig up the Oracle.
Of course, this choice is completely moot if/when you ever get a Demonic Tutor.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 25, 2011 9:58:04 GMT -5
Demonic Tutor would be a replacement for Diabolic Tutor, the only reason I don't have one is because it's typically $10 online unless you ebay.
The Harbinger has more relevant targets than oracle, I also have sylvan ranger, viridian shaman, (used to have c-loss), farhaven elf, wood elves, and yavimaya granger. Typically getting oracle and viridian would be worth it, but the tutor puts it on top of my library and I'm not sure if I like the harbinger better than being able to spot remove people's creatures in their yard + get a 3/3 zombie via the Cemetery Reaper. I think if C-loss was still in the deck that the Harbinger would be more relevant. The list is so tight right now that I'm just not sure what to cut if I wanted to get the harbinger and c-loss back in without cutting the Reaper.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 25, 2011 10:21:22 GMT -5
Eh, aside from the Oracle, the rest of those just look like mana-dorks and a Shatter. Not too impressive.
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Post by John Galli on Mar 16, 2011 4:53:39 GMT -5
Ok, so I've updated the original post to reflect my current list (the one I played at Dan's last night).
I've been under the impression the last 2 weeks or so that the list is really tuned, but anytime I get into a game with players who have a competitive aggressive deck mine seems to poop out and not do a whole lot (i'm playing cards every turn but not affecting the game state as much). On the other hand, in some of the games at Misty where the "not as competitive" players were involved (or simply players not as longtime running in edh), the deck was able to explode. I can't tell if I was just getting better draws or not being messed with as much.
So I'm really wondering what to do with the deck (all of my decks for that matter) and how I can go about strengthening them. Travis, Chris, Pat, Ryan, Ryan, Aaron etc, I'd appreciate any advice you guys have after looking at my newest list in the OP.
Right now the deck is themed around Sek'Kuar, Skullclamp, and Erratic Portal. Almost every dude I play has a CPT effect and is a skullclamp target with a few exceptions being creatures that are in there for defensive purposes. I'm currently not running Cultivate or Kodama's Reach type cards because there's about 6-10 mana dorks which fit my theme and are reusable with my recursion / erratic portal. You'll also notice I'm running a relatively low curve with almost all 3-4 drops or less with the exception of a few 5-6 drops and Terastodon. I thought I could play a speedier game this way since I'll be playing and replaying utility creatures quite often and using them with the various supporting artifacts. I don't know if maybe I just need more draw power, tutoring, or some other direction entirely. Or just minor cuts.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Mar 16, 2011 8:39:32 GMT -5
Couple of suggestions that might help you out: - I know that they are a little pricey, but you might consider a Fauna Shaman to help you find the right answers. You have a wide variety of answer spells, maybe you just need help digging them up. - Some more draw power wouldn't hurt, either. Phyrexian Gargantuan is a nice body with a nice ETB effect. Or, if you want to go a little smaller, Phyrexian Rager is always good. - Maybe you just need a couple more scary big cards in your deck (along with a Fierce Empath to dig them up). Butcher of Malakir is always good, and so is Massacre Wurm. Charnelhoard Wurm is kinda cool if it gets there. Rampaging Baloths might be another fun option. Bogardan Hellkite and Inferno Titan are always fun. - I'm surprised you don't have a Kiki-Jiki in your list...is it because of the price tag? He's pretty much the best ETB creature there is, and he would add a lot to your deck (you could even Skullclamp his copies for more fun). - Maybe you need to find more interesting things to do with your creatures besides just bounce them with Portal or Skullclamp them. - Maybe add some other stuff that triggers when things die, like Golgari Germination. - Maybe add something like Nerogenesis to get some more bodies (albeit small ones) on the table. - Maybe add a Mana Reflection. - Or, maybe you should just add a Genesis Wave and start vomiting stuff onto the table EDIT: Whoops, didn't mean to quote the whole list. EDIT again: Couple things I might cut... - Some of the weaker creature killers like Ghitu Slinger or Skinrender. - Multani's Acolyte. I could see the casting cost being an issue, and I can't imagine a situation where I would want to pay the echo cost, so unless you have something to do with it, you just paid GG to draw a card. Meh. - Diligent Farmhand. This is NOT a Sakura-Tribe Elder. It's basically a three-mana Rampant Growth, and for that cost you can get a Cultivate or a Wood Elves. - I actually cut Bloodghast from my Teneb deck because he is a dead draw without Skullclamp or some other sac outlet to take advantage of him. By himself, he really doesn't do anything at all. He can't block, attacking with him is essentially useless, and he doesn't immediately impact the board when he gets cast. I still have Reassembling Skeleton because at least he can block, and he's actually easier to reanimate (I've run out of land drops before).
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Post by JediCheese on Mar 16, 2011 11:07:26 GMT -5
- I'm surprised you don't have a Kiki-Jiki in your list...is it because of the price tag? He's pretty much the best ETB creature there is, and he would add a lot to your deck (you could even Skullclamp his copies for more fun). You can't use Kiki's ability on himself. He's legendary and his ability only targets non-legendary creatures.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Mar 16, 2011 15:23:09 GMT -5
- I'm surprised you don't have a Kiki-Jiki in your list...is it because of the price tag? He's pretty much the best ETB creature there is, and he would add a lot to your deck (you could even Skullclamp his copies for more fun). You can't use Kiki's ability on himself. He's legendary and his ability only targets non-legendary creatures. Should've been more clear on this one...you can copy another creature with Kiki and then Clamp the copy. Then, when the copy is sacrificed at EOT, you trigger Clamp and get a free two cards.
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Post by John Galli on Mar 17, 2011 17:14:30 GMT -5
Very good advice, I appreciate it dude. Fauna Shaman, Phyrexian Rager, and Massacre Wurm are all cards I'd love to see in this deck. I've considered Golgari Germination and Necrogenesis, although I don't like how they go after creature cards that I might want to grab with Geth or Chainer. That said, they are food for sac outlets and skullclamp, and they're good graveyard hate when you need it. I could probably see making room for them.
I like Ghitu Slinger and Acolyte for their echo because I have cards like Phyrexian Reclamation and Haunted Crossroads which help me bring them back for repeated abuse. They're also solid guys to use with Erratic portal so the echo cost doesn't factor in there. That said, they're not crazy cards and there's quite a bit of redundancy in this deck so it might be worth it to at least try other options and see. Skinrender's ability is different than damage and gets around issues with indestructible creatures which is the main reason I was running him but he's a bit overcosted and I always tend to want a little more -1/-1 then he provides.
Kiki Jiki would of course be perfect for this deck, but I'm much more green/black based so I'd almost never be able to cast him unless I really changed the deck around. I rarely have 2 red sources, let alone 3. That said, I'd love to find more cards to abuse that are similar to erratic portal or skullclamp that could go in this deck and support the CPT theme.
Diligent Farmhand is reusable with several of the cards in the deck and a clamp target. He's certainly not a Steve and he's not as good a mana accelerator as other cards are, but he does go along with some of the themes in this deck and his one mana cost means that I'll almost always be able to cast him even if I'm getting tight on mana. Still, he's probably a card to be cut if I get a chance to add some of the suggestions in this thread.
I knew you cut Bloodghast and I figured it was for those reasons, but I still think he's so ridiculously hot when you have a clamp out that it's almost worth it just for that, but it could go either way. Even without a clamp, if I have a sac outlet he's really good with my general to get free dudes.
This deck could possibly use more big scary dudes like you said, It's just a matter of what I like best. I wanted woodfall primus in here but I don't like his mana cost. I might just have to find something REAL scary like hellkite overlord. I also agree on the more draw power, I think all of my EDH decks need to be running just a smidge more.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Mar 21, 2011 9:42:58 GMT -5
The pattern I'm seeing here is that you are relying on things like Skullclamp and Erratic Portal and whatnot to make your other cards work. The problem with that theory is that you cannot guarantee that you will be able to dig up, cast, and use the Clamp or the Portal every time. I would look at your list this way: if a certain card (like Bloodghast) is only good with help from another card (like Skullclamp), then you probably need to cut the cards that need help to be good.
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Post by Zach on Mar 21, 2011 12:02:14 GMT -5
Skin Render + Kiki Jiki = crazy shenanigans ftw. DO ITTT
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Post by John Galli on Mar 21, 2011 12:21:50 GMT -5
I've got some other ideas for the deck that I've been pondering, I instituted 1 of them so far and it seemed to workout in our EDH games. The deck still needs a lot of revisions in some of the ways we discussed but I think I know the direction it needs to go. I agree on the skullclamp and erratic portal theory, and honestly this deck needs a few more tutors (demonic and diabolic intent) when I get a chance to trade or find them.
I also am desperately in need to fix the manabase, a shock land would go a long way in this deck.
Kiki's pretty much awesome with any creature in my deck Zach, but his RRR in the casting cost is really hard for this current build to do. There's some more red cards I want to incorporate though in the future build, so once I get the mana that I need I'll probably be getting Kiki in there too. Hell, I don't even need to cast him since I do a fair amount of recursion anyway.
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