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Post by John Galli on Dec 13, 2012 9:51:18 GMT -5
I'm making a separate thread for this so I can try to get some ideas going. Currently, in the last month, here are most of the lists that made it big at tournaments-
Standard Platinum TCQ Brooklyn, NY 2nd Place
4 Ash Zealot 4 Gore-House Chainwalker 4 Hellrider 4 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Stromkirk Noble 4 Thundermaw Hellkite 1 Zealous Conscripts Creatures [29] 2 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear Spells [6] 2 Cavern of Souls 3 Hellion Crucible 20 Mountain Lands [25] SIDEBOARD 4 Flames of the Firebrand 3 Mizzium Mortars 2 Pillar of Flame 2 Stonewright 2 Thunderbolt 2 Traitorous Blood
TCG 50k Championship Top 32
MAIN DECK 4 Ash Zealot 3 Gore-House Chainwalker 4 Hellrider 2 Lightning Mauler 3 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 2 Stonewright 4 Stromkirk Noble 2 Thundermaw Hellkite Creatures [28] 4 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear Spells [8] 2 Cavern of Souls 2 Hellion Crucible 20 Mountain Lands [24] SIDEBOARD 2 Archwing Dragon 2 Flames of the Firebrand 1 Hellion Crucible 3 Mizzium Mortars 4 Thunderbolt 1 Thundermaw Hellkite 2 Traitorous Blood
Standard Gold TCQ Denver 5th Place
MAIN DECK 4 Ash Zealot 3 Gore-House Chainwalker 4 Hellrider 3 Lightning Mauler 4 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Stromkirk Noble Creatures [26] 2 Brimstone Volley 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear Spells [10] 3 Hellion Crucible 21 Mountain Lands [24] SIDEBOARD 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Pillar of Flame 2 Thunderbolt 3 Traitorous Blood 4 Volcanic Strength
SCG Seattle 5th Place
4 Ash Zealot 3 Gore-House Chainwalker 4 Hellrider 4 Lightning Mauler 4 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Stromkirk Noble 3 Thundermaw Hellkite Creatures [30] 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Pillar of Flame 2 Searing Spear Spells [6] 3 Hellion Crucible 21 Mountain Lands [24] SIDEBOARD 3 Archwing Dragon 2 Flames of the Firebrand 1 Hellion Crucible 1 Pillar of Flame 4 Reckless Waif 1 Searing Spear 1 Traitorous Blood 2 Zealous Conscripts
MTGO Standard Premiere 1st Place
4 Ash Zealot 2 Gore-House Chainwalker 4 Hellrider 2 Lightning Mauler 2 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 2 Stonewright 4 Stromkirk Noble 1 Thundermaw Hellkite Creatures [25] 2 Brimstone Volley 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear 1 Traitorous Blood 2 Wild Guess Spells [13] 2 Hellion Crucible 20 Mountain Lands [22] SIDEBOARD 1 Annihilating Fire 2 Brimstone Volley 2 Geistflame 2 Mizzium Mortars 2 Pillar of Flame 2 Pyreheart Wolf 2 Thunderbolt 1 Traitorous Blood 1 Vandalblast
MTGO Standard Premiere 3rd Place
MAIN DECK 4 Ash Zealot 4 Gore-House Chainwalker 4 Hellrider 4 Mogg Flunkies 2 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Stromkirk Noble Creatures [26] 4 Brimstone Volley 4 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear Spells [12] 3 Hellion Crucible 19 Mountain Lands [22] SIDEBOARD 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Mark of Mutiny 2 Mizzium Mortars 2 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Reckless Waif 2 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded 1 Volcanic Strength
A little older but-=
Indiana States - 1st Place
4 Ash Zealot 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Rakdos Shred-Freak 3 Stonewright 4 Stromkirk Noble Creatures [19] 4 Brimstone Volley 4 Pillar of Flame 3 Pursuit of Flight 4 Searing Spear 4 Thunderbolt Spells [19] 16 Mountain 3 Steam Vents 3 Sulfur Falls Lands [22] SIDEBOARD 3 Annihilating Fire 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Hellion Crucible 2 Mizzium Mortars 2 Thundermaw Hellkite 2 Traitorous Instinct 3 Zealous Conscripts
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Post by John Galli on Dec 20, 2012 6:52:49 GMT -5
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 8, 2013 10:56:25 GMT -5
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Post by John Galli on Feb 8, 2013 11:48:58 GMT -5
urrrr he so badd. Took him 2 friggin minutes to figure out how to soulbond his creatures correctly
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Post by Zach on Feb 8, 2013 14:13:03 GMT -5
Have you considered running R/w, splashing for Boros charm, frontline medic or shock trooper?
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Post by John Galli on Feb 8, 2013 15:18:48 GMT -5
Yeah, that's basically why I've been hounding everyone I see about trying to trade for Clifftops. I have x4 Sacred Foundry but 0 Clifftop.
I'm hoping to run something similar to the third place list at SCG barring more testing-
Creature [26] 4 Ash Zealot 4 Boros Reckoner 4 Hellrider 2 Lightning Mauler 4 Rakdos Cackler 2 Stonewright 4 Stromkirk Noble 2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Boros Charm 1 Brimstone Volley 4 Searing Spear 4 Pillar of Flame
15 Mountain 4 Clifftop Retreat 4 Sacred Foundry
Sideboard:
1 Thundermaw Hellkite 2 Boros Charm 4 Skullcrack 4 Mizzium Mortars 4 Volcanic Strength
Here is an example of the "STOCK" list on MTGO the last week-
2 Hellion Crucible 21 Mountain 23 lands
4 Ash Zealot 4 Hellrider 4 Lightning Mauler 4 Pyreheart Wolf 4 Rakdos Cackler 2 Stonewright 4 Stromkirk Noble 2 Zealous Conscripts 28 creatures
2 Brimstone Volley 3 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear 9 other spells
Sideboard 1 Archwing Dragon 2 Devil's Play 3 Frostburn Weird 3 Mizzium Mortars 1 Pillar of Flame 3 Reckless Waif 2 Volcanic Strength
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The following are pretty much set in stone auto-plays-
4 Stromkirk Noble 4 Rakdos Cackler 2 Stonewright (ten one-drops, these specific ones as stonewright is helpful late game for big firebreathing)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner or Pyreheart Wolf (Reckoner is very good in aggro matches, but he's a liability against control decks where they have supreme verdict and you'd rather have a pyreheart wolf since he has undying and most of your team has haste. Against Jund they also have Dreadbore and Ultimate Price nullifying his ability to an extent. On the other hand, he's a much better body in the three-slot and he's really difficult to deal with. He's definitely the better card, but if you run him maindeck you need to have boros charm for it's indestructible clause against supreme verdict. Pyreheart Wolf is also good in a lot of aggro situations or midrange situations where your opponent doesn't realize just how much damage you are capable of dealing due to haste creatures and his triggered ability)
4 Hellrider
4 Searing Spear
The last 10-12 spots are the flex-spots where it depends on what your deck's specific goal is and what meta you're trying to take advantage of. Starting with-
*Lightning Mauler - Most lists these days run 4, some prefer 2-3. He's easily your worst 2 drop, but his ability to enable a hasty reckoner and simply having 8 hasty 2 drops can go a long way. Commonly people reduce his number to either play some number of gore-house chainwalkers or to go with more burn or bigger creatures. I personally like him as at least a x3 of, preferably x4.
*Thundermaw Hellkite or Zealous Conscripts - This is a metagame call, but Thundermaw is arguably the better maindeck card. Thundermaw is fairly necessary against tokens, as most of the other anti-token cards just don't get the job done, and he's a great finisher against just about every deck. That said, he doesn't dodge sorcery speed removal and sometimes your opponent just has too much defense for him to be able to attack. This is where Zealous Conscripts shines as often games will go, I play dude, you play dude, i play dude, etc, etc until you play zealous and win on that turn. A lot of builds have had x2 thundermaw main, x2-3 zealous side. Some have reversed that and had archwing out of the side. The ability to steal planeswalkers is largely irrelevant as most that are played don't have any kind of advantages for you and if you grab a tamiyo that's about to ultimate you can be sure they will have a counter at that point in the game. Some lists run x3-x4 of either thundermaw or zealous in the main but they typically run 24 lands which really screws up the curve and causes some awful draws if you play the deck as much as I do.
*Brimstone Volley / Pillar of Flame / Boros Charm / Flames of the Firebrand / Traitorous Blood - You want at least x3 Pillar, but the last few slots are really up to the meta and how you think the deck best operates.
- 4th Pillar: I think this is really useful 100% of the time. There's a million targets early on in most games, it's burn to the face for only one red mana, and there are some truly critical undying creatures that you will have a terribly difficult time handling if you don't have this. Most online lists currently run x3 main and x1 sideboard due to space issues, but that's a really tough change for me.
- Brimstone: The nice thing here is the ability to have added reach in some very close matchups, such as the mirror or ones where you are nearly there but a thragtusk has put them 1-2 points out of range. It's not however great against tokens or a large army on the other side of any kind, I'd much rather have flames of the firebrand there and this situation comes up a lot. Brimstone is the current favorite online but there's a lot of waffling. A lot of decks run a combination of brimstone and flames between main and board
-Boros Charm: If you are running the white splash then obviously this is the go-to card. I tested it against travis last night and I didn't really like when I drew it but at the same time I had awful hands those games. 8 white sources is really tough to get this working consistently, but the deck might be able to play 2 plains without issue bringing you up to 10 sources. Even if you only ran 8, like the SCG atlanta build, it's playable as you don't always need to cast it that early. It's REALLY good against a supreme verdict and if you play red often you almost always know when that's coming. The double-strike and 4 damage to the face can be pretty deadly too for combat math.
-Traitorous Blood: This is good if you expect a lot of similar style aggro decks. If the field is 60-70% small-curve aggro, this card is usually the trump that wins you the game. It's also a lot easier in 22-23 land builds to cast then Zealous Conscripts. The trample clause is additionally huge, as giving a thragtusk trample has often spelled the end for my opponents.
@other cards Zach mentioned - Spark trooper I've tested against but never with, he's pretty sweet but he's situational and expensive at 4 mana with strict mana requirements. He could prove to be REALLY good, but I have to put in some time testing it. The other issue is this deck has so much competition once you hit 4-5 mana that there's other creatures which pretty much do the same thing most of the time. Archwing Dragon is potent against the majority of the decks, but often times you just don't want another 4 drop; especially in the mirror.
Frontline medic is pretty much trumped by Skullcrack. Frontline is something you'd want to hit "on curve" and the white mana makes that difficult. It's also not really necessary since skullcrack stops sphinx's revelation's lifegain. The only card it can prove truly vital against is bonfire which is seeing a minimal amount of play. Now the indestructible clause is important, but getting batallion is not guaranteed very often in constructed.
SIDEBOARD:
Reckless Waif - He's really nuts when you're on the play against decks that lack 1 drops. He's single-handedly won me most of those games. Control, Reanimator, Midrange, etc, can all fall on the back foot as a result of this card. And it's easy to flip him on your own turn if they do play something.
Mizzium Mortars - this is here much less for the overload then it is for the 4 damage. Loxodon Smiter is a very tough card to face, and thus this comes out of the board against most G/W and Naya decks. Sometimes your game will go long enough that you get 6 lands and in those instances its usually a one-sided sweep aside from them maybe getting a beast off a thragtusk or having some BS card like Trostani / Wolfir Silverheart.
Skullcrack - I'm still evaluating this card. It's good against sphinx's revelation but it also might be worth playing against Thragtusk. I hate getting card disadvantage there, but afterall they were expecting to gain 5 life and instead they lose 3 so it might be worth it. I just find myself often having very few cards in that situation and going down another one, potentially your last card in hand, can be detrimental at times. Then again, so can them gaining life.
Archwing Dragon - somewhat discussed already but this guy is a house against decks like Control and Jund. They have a lot of removal that can't hit him and most of it's used up by the time he hits play anyways. He puts down a quick clock and they usually don't have anything to stop him. Cards like Sigarda and Angel of Serenity usually keep him in the board for me, and I don't want him against *most aggro, but otherwise he's situationally awesome. I ran x3 in the main when I top 8'd.
Electrickery - Surprisingly good against aggro and tokens, although an intangible virtue or a few two toughness guys can make this card dead fast. It's very meta dependent.
Volcanic Strength, Furor of the Bitten, Pursuit of Flight, Madcap Skills - These are all situationally good, and all run the risk of removal blowout if you don't play carefully. Volcanic Strength is the go-to right now because as I've recently seen it's pretty effective in the mirror when they tap out and you all of a sudden have a 4/4 mountain-walker. It's also good at trumping midrange decks that expect a bonfire to win them the game or to be able to stop your attacks. There's a lot of decks you don't want it in against though, so it's really tough to run a lot of them even though you need to run a decent number so that you actually see it against the decks you need it against.
Grafdigger's Cage / Tormod's Crypt / Beckon Apparition / Ground Seal - Depending on your splashes there are a few options, but you don't have a lot of board room to focus on one deck unless the meta demands for it. Previously I was fine running 0 graveyard hate and just having a "close" match with reanimator, but with the new combo build I think I need to have dedicated hate. I like Grafdigger's best, but Tormod's Crypt is fine if you know roughly when they're going to go off. Even if they have naturalize you can time it so that it at least delays them the turn you need to often win the game.
Blasphemous Act - Nobody's playing it *YET, but I want to test it since it combos with reckoner and is very useful against midrange/tokens which are two of the worst matchups.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 8, 2013 16:14:46 GMT -5
Blasphemous Act would be some serious tech, but you'd have to have four Reckoners AND it would only be a board card against other creature decks, since I doubt very much that you'd want to wrath yourself.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 8, 2013 16:32:03 GMT -5
Well 4 Reckoners is a given at this point, whether maindeck or board, and the Act would be for the exact matchups I mentioned so probably only a x1 or x2 of out of the board. I don't think that would be too bad because the games where you need it are typically ones where you've applied pressure but then they've stalled you out but yet they still can't win. So you get deep into a game, and try to just "threaten" like you could be top decking some burn to keep their attackers back and let them build up, and then BOOM, 13 damage to them and all their guys.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 8, 2013 18:27:04 GMT -5
Buckled down and bought 4 clifftops for the deck ($46 on eBay after shipping). Now I just need to try and trade for a few thundermaws or find someone to lend (but at least in the meantime I can use conscripts) Correction* thundermaws and blasphemous acts ordered too
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Evan
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by Evan on Feb 8, 2013 21:20:58 GMT -5
You said trade for or I woulda sold you that stuff cheaper. Oh well. =d
Cheers
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Post by John Galli on Feb 9, 2013 8:11:20 GMT -5
Its fine, those were the best prices I could find online at the moment without sitting on eBay forever and didn't know you had extras of the stuff.
This is the list I'm looking to test going forward (sideboard numbers will probably change)
New List 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Stromkirk Noble 2 Stonewright 4 Ash Zealot 4 Lightning Mauler 4 Boros Reckoner 4 Hellrider 2 Thundermaw Hellkite 2 Boros Charm 3 Pillar of Flame 4 Searing Spear 23 Mountain
Sideboard 4 Reckless Waif 1 Pillar of Flame 3 Mizzium Mortars 2 Blasphemous Act 3 Skullcrack 2 Tormod's Crypt
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Post by Zach on Feb 9, 2013 10:27:41 GMT -5
Where are you gonna get the white mana for Boros charm?
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Post by John Galli on Feb 9, 2013 12:48:25 GMT -5
Whoops that was supposed to be 15 mountains, 4 clifftop 4 foundry. And there should be a third charm in the board
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Post by John Galli on Feb 13, 2013 10:16:38 GMT -5
Went 0-2 drop last night, very disappointed with the metagame right now and what cards to put in my deck. Lost to Grixis Control in 3 games and Jack's Bant Life-gain in 3 games. (don't know what to call his deck that beats me everytime ). About a third of the tournament was my deck, and the other 2/3's were midrange and control. Just a straight uphill battle for this deck and I don't know what numbers to go with. The list I played last night- 4 Stromkirk Noble 4 Rakdos Cackler 2 Stonewright 3 Lightning Mauler 4 Ash Zealot 4 Boros Reckoner 4 Hellrider 1 Archwing Dragon 3 Boros Charm 4 Searing Spear 4 Pillar of Flame 15 Mountain 4 Clifftop Retreat 4 Sacred Foundry Sideboard: 4 Mizzium Mortars 4 Skullcrack 3 Volcanic Strength 3 Zealous Conscripts 1 Mountain Granted, I had some rough draws and mulligans in that mix of games above, but it just feels like it's one of those times where every deck is overpowering mine (which is a shame since I just bought clifftops and thundermaws). The other thing too is that I think the R/G lists I've been seeing seem better, but I don't have the capability of switching at this point without borrowing cards which I'd prefer not to do (and I don't know 100% of the value of R/G yet). I saw a list I liked though that Brad Nelson 4-0'd with online yesterday- FFfreaK (4-0) Standard Daily #4991820 on 02/11/2013 Main Deck 60 cards 2 Clifftop Retreat 2 Mountain 4 Rootbound Crag 4 Sacred Foundry 4 Stomping Ground 4 Sunpetal Grove 4 Temple Garden 24 lands 4 Boros Reckoner 4 Burning-Tree Emissary 4 Flinthoof Boar 4 Gyre Sage 4 Loxodon Smiter 4 Restoration Angel 4 Thragtusk 28 creatures 4 Domri Rade 4 Mizzium Mortars 8 other spells Sideboard 3 Boros Charm 2 Garruk Relentless 4 Oblivion Ring 4 Pillar of Flame 2 Thundermaw Hellkite 15 sideboard cards ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most likely I'm staying Boros or Straight Red, but any suggestions you guys could think of on cards maybe worth giving a try? I Still want to give the Blasphemous Act thing a go, I just didn't get them in the mail in time yesterday and the store was sold out.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 13, 2013 11:50:26 GMT -5
If you want to switch from Boros to Gruul, I have the lands for it. You could try it out for a couple of weeks and see if it makes a difference.
You could also just chalk it up to one bad night, the kind that just sorta happens sometimes for everyone. If you start to notice a trend over a couple of different events, then maybe you jump ship, but one day shouldn't condemn your deck outright. It took me several dozen games with Human Reanimator before I shelved it for BUG Tempo.
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