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Post by abeckett on Feb 12, 2013 12:34:07 GMT -5
I want Esper-Delver to be good, but I don't think it's the right deck to abuse Duskmantle Seer. Esper-control seems like the better approach. I really liked Chris Marshall's list from SCG Edison, but there's no way I'm dropping that kind of coin on standard. Travis: I was looking at this as more of a tempo-control build. Augur digs for cards and holds off a lot of the early game red decks seem to rely on. I don't like Nivmagus Elemental. It basically means you are wasting a spell to make him bigger. Dryad just does that better. While Delver may be a little less consistent, I still think it's the best choice for the 1-drop slot. No Ponder hurts. I guess you could run Index
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 12, 2013 12:52:57 GMT -5
Index...boo.
To be fair, I haven't actually tried Nivmagus yet. On paper, it looks like another 1/2 for 1 that can block Stromkirk Noble (where Delver cannot). Furthermore, Delver was just not very good for me in testing last night.
Augur just seems like more of a wall than anything. I feel like tempo decks need a quicker clock than the Augur can provide.
I should get a chance to test Nivmagus tomorrow evening. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 12, 2013 16:05:01 GMT -5
I tested out a U/R Delver build over lunch, I liked some of the choices I made but there was need for a little change. Overall impressed with some cards though-
Creatures (12) 4 Delver of Secrets 4 Augur of Bolas 4 Snapcaster Mage 4 Guttersnipe
Spells (27) 4 Izzet Charm 4 Thought Scour 4 Hands of Binding 3 Unsummon 2 Desperate Ravings 2 Dispel 2 Brimstone Volley 1 Pillar of Flame
Lands (21) 4 Steam Vents 4 Sulfur Falls 9 Island 4 Mountain
Sideboard: 3 Cyclonic Rift 3 Electrickery 3 Skullcrack 3 Mizzium Mortars 2 Pillar of Flame 1 Dispel
I think going forward I'd try something like this-
4 Delver of Secrets 4 Augur of Bolas 4 Snapcaster Mage 4 Guttersnipe or Fettergeist
3 Pillar of Flame 4 Thought Scour 4 Hands of Binding 4 Searing Spear 3 Izzet Charm 3 Dispel 1 Desperate Ravings 1 Cyclonic Rift
Sideboard: 4 Skullcrack 2 Electrickery 2 Cyclonic Rift 2 Spell Rupture 2 Mizzium Mortars 1 Dispel 1 Desperate Ravings 1 Aetherize
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Post by abeckett on Feb 12, 2013 20:51:04 GMT -5
Oh man...if you could get Fettergeist to work, that would be so awesome. Sadly, I think he's the worst of the Serendib Efreet remakes.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 13, 2013 9:17:31 GMT -5
I've actually seen him played a few times in Legacy. He's not the worst thing ever when he's all by himself with a lot of backup in hand.
In other news, I tried a couple games with Nivmagus Elemental last night, and it was just the most awkward thing ever. Where Quirion Dryad gives you added benefit for casting spells, Nivmagus makes you decide if you want to keep your spells or throw them away. He's definitely not right for the tempo deck.
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Post by JediCheese on Feb 13, 2013 12:28:19 GMT -5
Does anyone think there is a Quirion Dryad deck for standard? I see the Delver/Izzet deck above, and have a feeling it's exactly the deck to attack the current meta.
Is there a combo deck in standard? It just feels that the control decks have all moved to decks without counterspells (except Izzet Charm).
They are running another Win A Case tournament, this weekend and I'm thinking about trying to play if I can find a deck.
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Post by abeckett on Feb 13, 2013 13:08:39 GMT -5
The only combo deck is the human-reanimator list Travis was testing with John last weekend. I guess there's also the Travis Woo attack for a billion deck...but that probably folds to any sort of disruption.
My issue with Dryad right now is there's a ton of bounce in the meta. Between unsummon, cyclonic rift, and Azorious Charm, there are just too many decks that can deal with her before she gets out of hand. The BUG Tempo decks are probably the best fit because they have Simic Charm to help protect her and can run some limited counterspells.
I played QD grow decks in Vintage for over a year. They relied heavily on cheap cantrips and counters to protect dryad, then something like berserk to close the deal. It's possible a RUG shell could work with her. It's worth testing.
Also Travis, on Fettergeist, I fail to see where he is not better than Serendib Efreet in just about any situation in Legacy.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 13, 2013 13:09:24 GMT -5
Chris there are a few that fit the bill for what you're looking at. Quirion Dryad DeckGavin Verhey wrote about one a few weeks back, the full article is here- www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/rc/232List- 4 Breeding Pool 3 Glacial Fortress 3 Hallowed Fountain 4 Hinterland Harbor 2 Island 4 Sunpetal Grove 3 Temple Garden 23 lands 4 Delver of Secrets 4 Geist of Saint Traft 4 Quirion Dryad 3 Snapcaster Mage 15 creatures 4 Call of the Conclave 4 Hands of Binding 1 Mystic Genesis 3 Selesnya Charm 2 Simic Charm 4 Spell Rupture 4 Thought Scour This BUG list is catching popularity and top 32'd Atlanta. It doesn't have Dryad but he could easily go in the Mayor spot- sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52816COMBOThere's not much in the way of combo aside from Travis's deck. That deck is here and the sideboard should include abrupt decay for a few certain graveyard hate cards and to give it more game against mono-red- sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52786Travis Woo also wrote about this deck which is probably a little too far off base for competitive but could be worked with- www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-primal-surging-for-billions/List- Main Deck 4 Temple Garden 4 Overgrown Tomb 4 Woodland Cemetary 2 Swamp 8 Forest 2 Gavony Township 4 Arbor Elf 4 Avacyn S Pilgrim 4 Scorned Villager 4 Elvish Archdruid 4 Village-Bellringer 1 Wild Beastmaster 4 Gilded Lotus 1 Yew Spirit 1 Infinite Reflection 1 Akroma S Memorial 4 Craterhoof Behemoth 3 Diabolic Revelation 1 Primal Surge Sideboard 1 Thragtusk 1 Sanctuary Cat 1 Worldfire 3 Oblivion Ring 1 Sudden Disappearance 4 Axebane Guardian 2 Gavony Township 1 Griselbrand 1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope OmniDoor Thragfire is what Pat is playing, that deck hasn't shown up recently and is not technically "combo" but it's interesting nevertheless. www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-mono-7-drops/Your observation is also correct in that there are not a lot of counterspells being played, and part of that is due to a healthy amount of cavern of souls being played and a good amount of mono-red style aggro decks. A few pro authors have suggested trying out combo decks this weekend if you have any pet decks available. This article for example was interesting- www.starcitygames.com/article/25640_Analyzing-The-Top-32-Of-SCG-Standard-Open-Atlanta.htmlThe author discusses Burn at the Stake, a card I've been keeping on my radar for possible play. I tested it out a bunch a month or two back and there's absolutely some games where it just comes out of nowhere and deathblows your opponent. His list- sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52925I'd love to get some sort of mono-red krenko deck going with burn at the stake ;D ;D
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 13, 2013 13:16:02 GMT -5
@quirion Dryad: He's quite good in any sort of tempo deck. Bant, BUG, and RUG are all viable options. - I'm currently working on the BUG variety and he's a definite four-of in that list. I also love using Deathrite Shamans and Duskmantle Seers. - Bant doesn't really appeal to me because I won't be getting Geists of Saint Traft. - If I were to play RUG, Izzet Charm would probably be awesome...all three modes seem relevant, unlike Simic or Dimir Charms. - I'm also really not high on Delvers right now. Blind-flipping them is sketchy at best, and even if they do flip, all the removal in the format kills them very easily.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 13, 2013 13:20:06 GMT -5
Travis I think you've dismissed delver way too fast. I can't imagine you've tested him in a significant number of games recently. I've had no trouble flipping him on a regular basis in many of my brewed lists, I think it really comes down to specifically what draw/filter cards you have in your deck and your spell count.
For me the only frustrating parts of playing with these current tempo decks have been the lack of a mid-late finisher. This stuff requires a lot more testing though to figure out
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 13, 2013 13:48:08 GMT -5
What draw/filter cards did you use? Aside from Dimir Charm, I don't think there are any available.
Even if you do manage to flip a Delver, there's still way too many cheap removal spells to kill him, or other cheap aggro cards to race with him.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 15, 2013 16:56:12 GMT -5
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Post by John Galli on Feb 16, 2013 0:21:33 GMT -5
I like the second list a lot better than the first. I think tokens is a really good and really underestimated deck still, I'm always baffled why its not played more. I will say though that games can really stall out when you get into a control or midrange matchup, so I'd make sure your sideboard has a lot of Singleton trump cards and some appetite for brains possibly to clear bigger threats.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 19, 2013 10:22:50 GMT -5
I saw a pretty sweet UW Humans list on Cockatrice last night. Most of the deck was comprised of one drops, including Champions, Delvers, Boros Elite, Doomed Traveller, Cathedral Sanctifier, Wingcrafter, and probably some others I'm missing. It also ran at least 3 Supreme Verdicts and a couple of Mass Appeals (draw a card for each human, 2U Sorcery). But the really cool part was that he also ran several copies of Immortal Servitude, which allowed him to be very liberal with his blocks and wraths, and then bring his whole team back from the yard.
Needless to say, I still smashed him with a bunch of tokens backed up by Gavony Township, but it was a very cool idea. I think he could add some red for Legion Loyalist and Stromkirk Noble, but it was a very solid idea.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 19, 2013 12:33:15 GMT -5
I'm sure that deck could borrow some ideas from the UW aggro lists that were successful around states (including the winner of states). Also, I've seen a lot of people playing immortal servitude out of the board in that B/W Zombies deck I had mentioned with butcher ghoul, sac effects, etc, with a similar effect. Card is pretty good when built around
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