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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 8, 2013 16:11:37 GMT -5
Haterz gonna hate @deadeye: It pains me to say this cuz I really like the concept of this card, but it just seems like something that can only lead to degenerate things. @opposition: I don't see any degenerate combos in this list, and I think you might be confusing it with Mind Over Matter (Pat! ) when you are thinking of combos. I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. @spike Weaver: I really haven't played much with or against this card. I could see where a lot of fogging might become a problem, but it is still just a creature that can't really protect itself. Personally, there are a lot more bigger problems out there. @tan: I'm actually putting this in the camp of Deadeye Navigator in that it really only leads to degenerate things. As much as we'd all like to think otherwise, the reality is that it's just a game-winner.
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Post by abeckett on Feb 8, 2013 17:09:36 GMT -5
I'm always willing to remove something once it proves to be degenerate or when it always gets used to do the same thing. I run TaN in one deck right now (Karthus) and that's mainly because I just love being able to throw out a couple of fatties real quick. I don't think it's overly broken in that deck other than if I were to go grab Kiki+Witness, which I don't think I've ever done in fun games.
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Post by John Galli on Feb 8, 2013 18:25:15 GMT -5
Andrew for me its the "two creatures" part and the fact that it can be returned with e-witness unlike green sun. And with chord, you can tutor for e-witness but you at least have to use another card or turn getting a big chain going. Tooth and nail can just grab something abusive and something repetative and repeat. And people always say they're gonna play it fair and then they don't lol I've seen spike Weaver get out of hand, and the ability to recur him combined with a counters deck is my concern. He's less concerning then the rest though. Opposition + Horseshoe Crab. Again, maybe not an issue in Andrew's deck I just have ugly memories of Chris and Pat getting abusive with the former.
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Post by abeckett on Feb 8, 2013 21:04:24 GMT -5
That's a fair concern and one I had not thought about with Morphling in the deck. I'd rather run Superman than run the risk of being tempted to lock someone out of the game.
It's official then. Oppo, TaN, and Deadeye are out. Spike Weaver is going to stay for now. I'll cut him if it proves to be that oppressive.
Thanks for the input guys. I always try to find the balance between fun and just enough broken to not piss off the table.
For reference - I'm sticking with Kraj. This will be close to the initial list.
Creatures - 34 Experiment Kraaj 1 Ulvenwald Tracker 2 Bloom Tender 2 Coiling Oracle 2 Gyre Sage 2 Scavenging Ooze 2 Zameck Guildmage 3 Champion of Lambholt 3 Fertilid 3 Gilder Bairn 3 Plaxcaster Frogling 3 Sage of Fables 4 Cytoplast Root-Kin 4 Fathom Mage 4 Forgotten Ancient 4 Glen Elendra Archmage 4 Master Biomancer 4 Mystic Snake 4 Oracle of Mul Daya 4 Spike Weaver 5 Acidic Slime 5 Beguiler of Wills 5 Genesis 5 Morphling 5 Murkfiend Liege 5 Mycoloth 5 Seedborn Muse 6 Arcanis, the Omnipotent 6 Draining Whelk 6 Duplicant 6 Prime Speaker Zegana 6 Vigor 7 Avenger of Zendikar 8 Woodfall Primus
Instants - 5 2 Cyclonic Rift 3 Beast Within x Biomass Mutation x Chord of Calling x Strength of the Tajuru
Sorcery - 5 3 Cultivate 3 Kodama's Reach 5 Urban Evolution 6 Rain of Thorns 8 Praetor's Counsel
Enchantments – 9 2 Survival of the Fittest 2 Sylvan Library 3 Equilibrium 4 Greater Good 4 Leyline of Anticipation 4 Ooze Flux 5 Doubling Season 5 Inexorable Tide 6 Lurking Predators
Artifacts - 9 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Sol Ring 2 Illusionist's Bracers 3 Crystal Shard 3 Oblivion Stone 3 Thousand-year Elixir 4 Birthing Pod 4 Evolution Vat 5 Cauldron of Souls
Planeswalkers - 1 4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Land - 37 Alchemist's Refuge Breeding Pool Command Tower Flooded Grove Gaea's Cradle Hinterland Harbor Minamo, School at Water's Edge Misty Rainforest Mosswort Bridge Novijen, Heart of Progress Oran-Rief, the Vastwood Reliquary Tower Simic Growth Chamber Simic Guildgate Temple of the False God Tropical Island Forest - 10 Island - 11
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 12, 2013 13:23:45 GMT -5
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Post by abeckett on Feb 12, 2013 16:07:00 GMT -5
Nice. Funny how many Kraj decks arrive at the same conclusions. I had forgotten about Triskelion though. Might need to finally find a home for my AQ copy of the robot.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 13, 2013 9:27:45 GMT -5
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Post by abeckett on Feb 13, 2013 11:51:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I kind of figured this was going to happen with all of the new toys for UG and a solid general. I like Zegana at the helm, but I think Kraj is far more interesting.
Granted, swtiching them keeps 99% of the deck the same. I just feel like Zegana invites good stuff builds.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Feb 13, 2013 13:18:09 GMT -5
Agree on all fronts. Kraj is way more unique and flavorful, and invites more obscure cards, like proliferate or the old Simic graft guys. Zegana is just "play a fattie, draw some cards". Lame.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Mar 4, 2013 11:15:12 GMT -5
Crap, I just won a foil Master Biomancer on eBay last night, to go along with the foil Momir Vig, Prime Speaker Zegana, and the promo Fathom Mage from the pre-release. Guess it's tiem to make that Simic deck after all...
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Post by abeckett on Mar 4, 2013 11:25:43 GMT -5
BRING IT ON
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Mar 4, 2013 12:34:15 GMT -5
On the other hand, I could go RUG with Maelstrom Wanderer...
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Post by abeckett on Apr 1, 2013 11:43:17 GMT -5
The deck has had a few outings (about a dozen games at this point), and I'm making some changes. The current form just wan't making me happy. Also, Kraaj requires too many build around cards that I hate seeing if he's not already in play. I'm going to give the deck a try with Zegana at the helm for a while.
Here's the updated list: General 6 Prime Speaker Zegana
Counter makers - 12 2 Zameck Guildmage 3 Gilder Bairn 4 Cytoplast Root-kin 4 Evolution Vat 4 Forgotten Ancient 4 Master Biomancer 5 Doubling Season 5 Inexorable Tide 6 Contagion Engine 6 Experiment Kraj 6 Vigor x Strength of the Tajuru
Ramp - 10 0 Mana Crypt 1 Sol Ring 2 Coiling Oracle 2 Gyre Sage 3 Coalition Relic 3 Cultivate 3 Fertilid 3 Kodama’s Reach 4 Oracle of Mul Daya 5 Urban Evolution
Draw - 5 1 Skullclamp 1 Sensei’s Divining Top 2 Sylvan Library 3 Sage of Fables 4 Fathom Mage
Tutor - 4 2 Survival of the Fittest 4 Birthing Pod x Chord of Calling x Green Sun’s Zenith
Tutor/Recursion - 3 3 Eternal Witness 3 Mimic Vat 5 Genesis
Board control - 12 1 Ulvenwald Tracker 2 Cyclonic Rift 2 Scavenging Ooze 3 Beast Within 3 Oblivion Stone 3 Plaxcaster Frogling 4 Glen Elendra Archmage 4 Mystic Snake 5 Acidic Slime 6 Draining Whelk 6 Duplicant 8 Woodfall Primus
Other - 11 3 Champion of Lambholt 3 Crystal Shard 3 Equilibrium 4 Phyrexian Metamorph 4 Spike Weaver 5 Asceticism 5 Murkfiend Liege 5 Mycoloth 5 Seedborn Muse 7 Avenger of Zendikar x Genesis Wave
Planeswalkers - 5 4 Garruk, Wildspeaker 4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor 5 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 5 Tezzeret, the Seeker 7 Karn Liberated
Lands - 37 (the usual suspects)
With this build, I'm trying to get some extra mileage out of the proliferation and doubling season effects, which includes upping the planeswalker count a little.
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Post by Zach on Aug 25, 2013 18:13:17 GMT -5
Have you gotten a chance to play this at all recently? If you have, how has it gone? I just recently picked up a master biomancer and a progenitor mimic in a trade on the cheap, so I was thinking of trying something along these lines...
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Post by abeckett on Aug 30, 2013 11:46:50 GMT -5
I have not touched cards in over a month, but this was my deck of choice for most of the summer when playing EDH. It can be explosive and go nuts, or it can take forever to get going.
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