Missing colors in Theros

[JediCheese]

I have noticed that in some packs don't have a color. I only saw it in some of the non-color specific packs in the sealed boxes. Anyone else see this?

If this is prevalent, drafting is going to be annoying...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards

[JediCheese]

Also, this set reminds me of M10 where the correct way to win at sealed was to open multiple Vampire Nighthawk and burn...

I can only hope that draft requires skill and not just devolve to opening bombs.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards

[John Galli]

I didn't notice, but I wasn't paying too much attention to it.

I did 4 Pre Release events this weekend (Friday Midnight, Sat Morning, Sunday Morning, and Sunday Afternoon). My thoughts so far-

- I really love this set. It was every bit as much fun as I had hoped and the power level of all the colors shined bright in my opinion. People always like to try and say one color is better than another, but I saw a variety of decks doing well.

- I went 2-2, 3-1, 2-2 (should have been 3-1), and played one round in the last tourney before handing the pool over to a friend. I found it pretty challenging because as you mentioned Chris the games are very swingy due to the bombs. That said, I think it was like a pendulum that could go either way because it seemed like everyone had bombs. What I think matters most here is proper deck building. Everytime I sat down with a few players and discussed a particular pool, everyone's thoughts went in different directions. This is a highly cognitive set that will require some practice to master.

- almost all my losses were within a turn of going the other way. The only losses all weekend that weren't that way were one against a U/G deck that destroyed me because his pool was absolutely absurd and another where I waited an extra turn on a spell because I didn't realize it was a sorcery and it cost me the match. I had one game where I had the mythic Gorgon in play with enough to make it monstrous next turn and win alongside of a 5/5 flying lifelink, when my opponent proceeded to rip elspeth off the top and minus three her to clear my board and then move on to win. Those are the "format scary" type of plays that I think make the format a little worse, but alas this is sealed. I think M14 did a great job of regulating that, but it's probably an anomoly.

- Over the weekend I played U/B, U/G, R/B, and G/W. I am very undecided on them and I think you have to go with your pool until the set is understood more. My U/G deck finished the best, but it also had some very good cards. My U/B deck probably had the best cards, but my opponents had great decks too and every game felt like a Mike Tyson / Holyfield Slugfest. It seemed that a lot of archetypes had good and bad matchups, just like in constructed magic

[JediCheese]

I've been drafting a ton of Theros since it's release and I've gone 2-0 with a draw in round 3 to split in every draft thus far (profitable!). Hyper aggro was really good until people realized it was good and now I'm playing more midrange decks.

Having a reasonable 2, 3 and 4 drop plus 2-4 end game creatures usually results in victory because too many decks are relying upon clunky removal that is too late or playing a bunch of sub-par aggro creatures to put pressure on. The end game creatures can even be something like Nessian Asp or Benthic Giant, a 4/5 with a semi-relevant ability wins games. The best part is most of the finishers are picks 10+ so you aren't wasting valuable picks on cards that are needed and vital but are underdrafted.

The two cards I think stand out in the format are Vaporkin and Minotaur Skullcleaver. Both creatures embody a card that must be answered or you lose. The decks that play these cards play multiples, and without an answer you lose (I drafted four Vaporkin tonight and many games had 2 out and reduced the opponents life at a scary pace).

[John Galli]

Glad to hear your thoughts on Theros Limited with the impending PTQ. I personally still haven't drafted the set, I just haven't had the time and money. I'm worried it's going to be like the last PTQ where I top 4'd and hadn't drafted that set either ;D

I've tried to keep a small pulse on articles regarding the format, I've heard a lot of buzz about R/W Heroic and G/B fatties with removal. What you described sounds pretty plausible to me, as my experienced with the Sealed showed that this set can be pretty vicious once you get to five/six/seven mana. I really think that it seems like a format where you want to focus on buying time in those early turns to setup your bigger plays which clearly outclass the smaller stuff.

One thing I think should be achievable in draft depending on if it's open would be a devotion based deck. Black devotion specifically looks stellar, I was thinking about the possibility of drafting a Gray Merchant deck (since he was nuts for me in Standard testing) and then I saw the guy who top 4'd the PTQ with me was talking about going X-0 in a draft with x3 Gray Merchant and x1 Abhorrent Overlord.

One concern in Sealed deck for me was that the removal suite in this set is on the poor side. I could see that being shored up in draft, but it wasn't so much a lack of removal as it was the quality of removal. A lot of the stuff seemed expensive or narrow, or simply didn't hit the commonly played cards. For instance, there were a lot of x/3, x/4, and x/5 creatures, and a lot of two-damage burn spells or stuff like Pharika's Cure. Then there was stuff like Lash of the Whip which was fine, but it cost five mana. It's problems like these which give more value to those aggro decks and make me worry a bit when playing a heavier deck. One of my few losses with one of my better Sealed pools was to a R/W Heroic deck. And that was in Sealed. . .

Chris, the cards you mentioned seemed very strong to me in Sealed, so I can see how they would make an impact in draft. Have you drafted any U/W Fliers or U-Tricks decks at all that were worth their salt? Is that a thing in this format?

[abeckett]

I have not drafted the set yet, but I agree with John's observations on the removal that's present in the environment. Not only is most of the actual hard removal in the cmc 5+ slot, a lot of it is sorcery speed. I'm sure that's meant to encourage heroic as a deck type more than anything.

Devotion-based decks seem like they would be interesting to draft.

[JediCheese]

The problem with Grey Merchant in a draft is he's an uncommon. It's very hard to get multiples of an uncommon in a draft.

I haven't played U/W Fliers. I have gone U/x fliers, which is amazing.

Heroic is the real deal if you can get it. White has amazing heroic. In green you have Staunch-Hearted Warrior. In gold you have Battlewise Hoplite which is U/W. The Blue, Red, and Black Heroic cards (non-rare) aren't really all that great. I wouldn't go out of my way going Heroic just for heroic, but I wouldn't be adverse to triggering some heroic abilities if the cards lined up.

My last point about Heroic is that the target needs to come from a spell. This reduces it's function drastically. In many cases, you are spending a card to trigger heroic, so the card that triggers heroic needs to be playable by it's own in case you don't find the heroic creature.

Also, most instants/sorceries in Theros target your opponents creatures. There isn't the usual cast of crappy instants that give your creature 0/+1 for G that you can draft as a 12th pick to trigger heroic. You are typically relegated to enchantments/bestow creatures to trigger Heroic. This isn't as bad as typical because there aren't many removal cards that can blow you out.

Included is a full list of possible instant/sorcery cards that can target your own creature profitably:
Battlewise Valor
Boon of Erebos
Coordinated Assault
Cutthroat Maneuver
Dauntless Onslaught
God's Willing
Savage Surge
Time to Feed
Titan's Strength
Triton Tactics
Warrior's Lesson

There are three other cards that possibly trigger heroic but either I wouldn't be playing them or they make your creature worse (for the turn:
Spark Jolt
Hunt the Hunter
Lost in a Labyrinth

[John Galli]

Just FYI, Gray Merchant is a common

[JediCheese]

Definitely missing colors in draft. I had a pack with a single white card and no red passed to me, pack 3 pick 2.

Also, how far do you go down when mulliganing? Match 2 game 1 I was on the play and got a hand with 6 cards and 1 land, then 6 cards no land, then 5 cards no land, and finally 4 cards no land. I had a two drop creature after mulliganing to 4 (and two 4 drops and a 5 drop) which wasn't great but I felt it was more ideal than mulliganing to 3. Right call or not?

[abeckett]

I would never mulligan below 5 cards. Even if I had a no lander. I'm sure someone has done the math, but I'd rather be living off the top of my deck than risk an even worse four card hand.

[JediCheese]

The problem with a 5 card hand with no lands just mulliganing down to 5 cards results in a major drawback and is even more devastating when you are on the play because your opponent gets a free card and the play.

On the other hand, a 4 card hand with a single land can play out. Give yourself a land and a two drop and 2x three drops and rip some lands and you are in it. Likely, you aren't taking the game unless you get the nuts and your opponent stumbles but it can happen.

Especially since I was playing a more aggro W/r deck with a low curve so some luck and I'm in it. As mentioned above, I find that the critical turns are 2-4 and if you can play a card each of those turns, you'll likely still be in the game and the longer it goes the less of a dis-advantage you'll be at late game.

I spent some time looking for information on low card mulliganing and didn't really find anything. I found sample hands and whatnot, but most revolved around either generic mulligans or 7->6 card mulliganing.

I played the game out and got a ton of knowledge from the game (my opponent didn't finish me off fast and played every card in his hand despite him having enough to finish me off faster). It give me a ton info and allowed me to craft an effective SB plan for games 2 and 3 and allowed me to take the match!

[John Galli]

It's funny, I had a huge post typed out yesterday and was going to finish it up this morning but then decided to delete it after last night's draft. I've been reading a lot about Theros and have had good discussion with local players in the last few days, followed by drafting the set on Monday and Tuesday (with a third draft tonight).

This set is pretty interesting. I found the sealed really enjoyable during the prerelease, and drafting it reveals some very different lines of attack. In last night's draft, I went 3-0 and won, and Jasper finished second. Both of our decks were pretty insane, but both were wildly different. I had a R/W Heroic deck with triple Wingsteed Rider and a lot of quality pump spells, and he had an Esper deck with Elspeth, Abhorrent Overlord, and Ashen Rider. Both decks were scary as hell, but in different ways.

I suppose any format has this element to it, but the degree to which the bomby decks and the aggro decks are separated by seems drastic in comparison to previous sets. To be successful with "aggro", I feel like you really have to draft the nuts. The creatures and spells that turn the tide in this format are fairly incredible, and the removal is virtually non-existent. As most people have concluded, games can often boil down to a "Voltron'd" dude, mostly because of how narrow a lot of the removal that is played is. Cards like Voyage's End and Griptide are so good because they don't care what kind of guy you have in play. Similarly, Portent of Betrayal feels like one of the best threaten's in a long time due to the fact that most of the time the creature it steals can win the game in that one turn you get them.

One area I feel is really important to take notice is the average power/toughness level. Jasper and I have discussed this now in depth two days in a row and I think it could possibly be the most important takeaway when drafting. One toughness guys are incredibly bad here, and most guys with two power, sometimes even three, aren't that hot either. There's a bunch of 1/3, 1/4, and 1/5 creatures in this set that are all quite playable, and help you defend until you hit your big cards. The importance of this I think moves you towards needing to draft fliers, deathtouch, and guys with P/T ratios closer to their casting cost. Naturally, you want some of that anyway in draft, but you seem to have to force it a bit. It makes picks need to be based more on this, so for instance if you're debating between a pump spell/enchantment or a 3/2 / 2/1, I feel the pump spell is the right call the majority of the time.

Jasper's been stressing that the Ordeals are very important to draft, it seems like all the two-mana enchantments are where you want to be. They have a warping effect on the first few turns of the game, and often put creatures out of the removal range of 90% of the spells that hit before turn five. There's also cards like Dragon Mantle, which he was hyping and which I learned the power of last night. I've toyed around with it in Standard while doing some of my testing, but I had two of them last night and it was easily a hallmark of my deck. Putting Dragon Mantle on any guy is basically allowing him to fight anything in the format let alone the intense clock.

One last thing; there is SO much scry and draw in this format. I think not only does it make for great games, but it also feels really important to keeping the aggro decks going. I had double magma jet, double dragon mantle, double battlewise valor, and other stuff last night that made it feel like I would always hit my land drops and continually put down threats.

And Andrew thanks for coming last night, that was a lot of fun. Can't believe we got an eight-man going at my place

[John Galli]

God, this thing is awesome-

gatherer.wizards.com/magic/draftools/draftviewer.asp?draftid=10_12_2013_1&player=8&pack=1&pick=1&showpick=false

[John Galli]

I learned a very valuable lesson last night in draft. Don't try to force a cute strategy in this set and instead go with what you think looks strongest. I saw an "archetype" article from Tom Ross and tried to draft it only to make what felt like blatantly poor picks and miserably go 0-3. My day was salvaged by a thankfully deep pool of prize rares but I could have easily won the draft IMO if I had trusted my own drafting abilities.

I was trying to force BW Control after a first pick Gray Merchant, but I ended up with a crappy BR pile and could have drafted the following, all which proceeded to beat me and my opponents on the day:

Spear of Heliod
Ember Swallower
Mistcutter Hydra
Polis Crusher
Colossus of Akros
Firedrinker Satyr
Sylvan Carytid
Vulpine Goliath
x2 Nessian Asp
x2 Nykthos

I passed almost all of those cards. It felt like poop, I'm dumb, and they all were the best pick in the pack by a mile. My cute strategy wasn't even a good one and the guy across from me was on the same plan so naturally we finished 7th and 8th respectively. We were redrafting rares at the end which included two Polukranoses and an Elspeth as well *facepalm*. I knew they were the best cards, so I wasn't evaluating them wrong, I just was forcing way too hard. Chapin's article was the one I should have listened to which said to stay open for a while, and never force.

Just thought I'd share so others never bonehead like this

[abeckett]

Staying open seems really important in this format. My first few picks the other night had be in green and red, but jumped into blue halfway through the pack after nabbing two later Nimbus Naiads. I moved to black in P2 after opening a Hero's Downfall and based on how weak green seemed to be getting midway through P1.

I ended up right on the line on playables, but I felt the deck was pretty strong. The games I lost to True in round one were largely on the back of a Hoplite that got out of control really fast. Flying beats pretty much helped me sweep the rest of the rounds 2-0.