Bant llark idea

[crazedferret]

Here is what I was thinking in terms of a bant list. All of it depends on availability of the cards as to whether or not I'll be able to play it.
I have relatively little of the deck idea. * stars mark the things I know I have.

Main deck (still ambiguous as to final form but these are the cards I'd consider playing with)

* mystic snake x3 or 4

mulldrifter x3 or 4

coiling oracle x4

sakura tribe elder x4

eternal witness x3 recur my spells especially primal or cryptic command (infinite counter loop) targetable by llark

stone cloaker x2? may be something else, has intriguing possibilities with revellark and mystic snake plus hits graveyards and can return itself with its' own ability so can remove more than one card. Another thought would be Jotun Grunt which might be better for the grave hate and also the reset on my cards

* unsummon x3 (maybe unnecesasary with cryptics and bant charm and path but it is a nice first turn reset and combos off a llark or mystic snake later game)

* path to exile x 4 obvious answer to annoyingness

cryptic command x 3 or 4

* bant charm x 3 or 4 (pretty sure I have four)

* revellark x3

primal command x 2 time warp an opponnent and find an eternal witness to do it again? There's almost no limit to how many times I could do that as I could eventually shuffle my deck back together with the other ability

Lands enough to make it work right. I'm not too concerned about them being shock lands or fetches or anything just so that it works right.
I believe I have 3 * reflecting pools and *bant trilands, *bant panoramas (I know they probably aren't as good here but if I can't get the other stuff this may have to suffice) Possibly *treetop or the *blue man land

thoughts on the side board
3 x q. pridemage
3 x k finks
2 x primal command
4 x wrath/austere command/dayof J/planar cleansing (I have 4 day of J, 2 austere, and 1 planar cleanse, as well as 2 marshall coup which I don't plan to run)

glen elendra
sower of temptation
mana leak
vendillion clique
meddling mage?
clone
rhox warmonk
I don't know what I'm missing maybe fracturing gust?

Any quick thoughts are appreciated.
I kinda like the idea of playing 3 different commands in the deck too especially with the eternal witnesses.

[John Galli]

Ok, that's a lot of cards, hopefully I can dig up enough of them. I wasn't quite sure which ones you needed though, as there was that list of the end of "ideas".

So-

mulldrifter x3 or 4 (I should have 4)
coiling oracle x4 (i think i have 1 if that)
sakura tribe elder x4 (i think i have 1)
eternal witness (i think i have 1)
Stone Cloaker (I have none)
Cryptic Command (I have 4)
Primal Command (I should have the 2)


Sideboard-

Do you have the stuff for this or no? I couldn't tell, but I should have extra pridemages (I think I'm not sure tho), I have 3 kitchen finks, possibly the two extra primals, I'm using my wraths but I could probably lend day of judgement or something, I might have 1 austere and a martial coup, i'll have to dig.

I don't have most of the ideas list that you put down, or at least not many of them set aside 4 meddling mage somewhere.

Wall of Roots might be a good substitute for Tarmogoyf. (0/5 can give it a -0/-1 counter to add a green mana)

Not really sure tho, this looks kind of hodge-podge, and I realize that it's a short-notice decision, but you might be better off just rolling with something more defined already. I'll dig up what I can tho and see you over at Misty later or tomorrow morning.

Btw Pat, I'll probably be picking you up at about 6:30am, so just make sure you've got everything organized for that and then we'll hit Karl's house about 6:45am and hit the road. Should be a fun time, extended's always full of crazyness . Just make sure you beat those smelly zoo players.

btw, you didn't put down many lands which is probably the hardest part to get, so I hope your set on that.

[crazedferret]

Pretty much anything that is not starred is something I'd need. The final list of cards is a little up in the air at the moment and I do realize it's kinda hodge-podge and untested, but if I'm going to go and get myself beat up all day then I'm going to do it playing cards I like to play.

At the moment I'm not sure what I need for the lands, I'm working that out. Do you still have the blue green filter lands? or the vivids? I could make it work with those if need be. I would love me some shock lands but I don't think I'll get those in time.

[Travis Lannoye]

I tried several ideas like this, and all of them had basically the same results. The best creatures are as follows:
- Eternal Witness
- Mulldrifter
- Coiling Oracle
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Meddling Mage
- Venser, Shaper Savant
- Body Double

If you want some 3-power guys, Kitchen Finks and Vendilion Clique are as good as it gets.

As far as lands go, make sure you have a minimum of four Misty Rainforest, plus 2-3 of each of the shocklands. I currently own a full set of Hallowed Fountain (U/W) and at least 2 Temple Gardens (G/W) that I'm not using. The Breeding Pools (U/G) will be a little tougher to get. You could also try to use Sunpetal Groves and Glacial Fortresses (they combine well with shock-lands).

[Travis Lannoye]

Pat, this one's for you...
strategy.channelfireball.com/featured-articles/rogue-report-project-x-gifts/

I've got a full set of Gifts available.

[crazedferret]

I really like the idea and want to make something similar, but I don't have any saffi's or crypt champions. There are also a number of one-of's in the deck that I don't really have either that would be necessary.

[Travis Lannoye]

I've got two Saffi's, Crypt Champions are about a dollar apiece, and I've got most of the rest of the one-of's. If you want to play the deck, I say go for it.

[crazedferret]

I do want to play the deck, but obviously with my own spin to it. I'll have to consider exactly what I want in the deck.

[Travis Lannoye]

Better get started...the Madison Extended PTQ is February 20th. If you want to do some testing, we are trying to organize at least one big day of testing.

[Travis Lannoye]

After testing today, Bant Lark seems like the way to go right now. It has outs to every major threat in the field, and it doesn't need to play Tarmogoyfs to be good. Fuck Wizards for printing $100 bills.
Here's a list of all the good Bant creatures that could possibly be played in a deck like this:
1cc: Noble Hierarch
2cc: Meddling Mage, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Qasali Pridemage, Wall of Roots (great idea Pat!), Coiling Oracle
3cc: Vendilion Clique, Kitchen Finks, Knight of the Reliquary, Eternal Witness, Stonecloaker (a very underrated card)
4cc: Glen Elendra Archmage, Venser Shaper Savant, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Sower of Temptation, Loxodon Hierarch
5cc: Body Double, Reveillark, Teferi Mage of Zhalfir

For non-creature spells, we have access to plenty of good stuff. Personally, I think a combination of Path, Mana Leak, and Bant Charm are all that's necessary, but there's also Primal Command, Cryptic Command, Spell Snare, Rune Snag, Remand, Repeal, Echoing Truth, Boomerang, and so many more.

As for the Gifts package, I really wish I had more time to determine if it was worth it or not. I'd really like to be able to run a toolbox of sorts, but it might be better to just run all the best creatures possible, not waste any slots on tutoring, and put the silver bullets in the board. If I were to run a non-Gifts list, it would likely go something like this:

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Meddling Mage
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Reveillark

3 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
3 Bant Charm

2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Breeding Pool
2 Temple Garden
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
1 (insert your favorite man-land here)

Side:
- Krosan Grip (Thopters, Fae, Jitte)
- Stonecloaker (Dredge, Thopters)
- Celestial Purge (Depths, AIR)
- Aven Mindcensor (Scapeshift, anything with tutoring)
- Kor Firewalker (Burn)
- Wall of Roots (Zoo)
- Negate (Fae, Thopter, Depths)

Of course, this is all pure speculation, but if anyone out there has any ideas, please do not hesitate to post them.

[Zach]

Anybody need the new Jace?

[crazedferret]

Here's my current list. It was doing pretty well the other night, but I'm open to suggestions with the exception that suggestions must be obtainable by saturday.

3 hinder
3 hallowed burial
4 primal command
3 gifts
3 cryptic command
3 path to exile
3 bant charm
3 coiling oracle
3 sakura tribe elder
3 eternal witness
1 wall of roots
1 reveillark
1 body double
1 mirror entity
1 painter servant
1 iona shield of emeria

23 lands (probably needs revision as I changed the deck since the last tourney)
3 temple garden
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 mystic gate
3 treetop village (I kinda want the white-blue manlands as it fixes better. I have upon several occasions been stuck short of one of the colors I need. I could see them being something else as well.)
1 forest
1 plains
2 islands
4 reflecting pools
4 misty rainforest
2 flooded grove

tentative sideboard
4 meddling mage
4 negate (or other cheap CC counterspell, I don't like mana leak in this spot, it doesn't always counter stuff late game)
1 trinket mage
1 tormod's crypt
1 chalice of the void
1 engineered explosives
1 fracturing gusts
1 thopter foundry
1 sword of the meek

SO a bit about the idea --- primal command to time warp and fetch an e.witness to do it again
or cryptic command counter bounce an e.witness to do it again, hinder to reinforce the timewalk strategy, hallowed burial keeps people from having too many creatures in the grave and also sets my e.witnesses back on the bottom of the deck for further abuse with primal command, coiling oracle, steve and wall of roots for interference and acceleration into 3rd turn cryptic mana or gifts mana, path to exile and bant charm for removal.

THen the combo part --- revillark, body double, mirror entity, this gives me infinite triggers with reveillark which combined with coiling oracle, e.witness, wall of roots and primal command means that i can draw my entire deck, play all my lands, draw my grave back to hand, gain infinite green mana and life, put all lands and non creature permanents back on top of my opponents library, and finally end with iona and painter servant in play (remember I can play all my lands from my deck and seeing as I have infinite life they can all be untapped) thus locking them out entirely.

Now the reveillark body double mirror entity part works pretty nicely, I'm not so sure how well the painter servant - iona part work. Painter servant has very little synergy with the rest of the deck and if I cut this card then I'm not so sure how important iona is to keep in the deck. Although I can primal command it up pretty easily and it makes for an interesting gifts package with body double. I have also considered splashing a little bit of black for an extirpate and cranial extraction which could be a pretty strong move but then I'm extending the colors to where I think I might need to get rid of the manlands. (not as big a deal as I rarely seem to use them as it is. They are just nice to have as last resort blockers/attackers)

About sideboard
meddling mage and negate are for the early game against stuff like cascade combos. Then there is the trinket mage tool box which can get me tormod's crypt engineered explosives and chalice of the void (If I do this route I need to include a tolaran academy main deck somewhere)
fracturing gusts - I'm not sure is the right card choice, magus of the disk might be better to what i want as I'd be able to get it with both gifts and primal command. Then I thought it would be interesting to have the thopter foundry sword combo in the side as a nice little surprise.

I've found a few cards to be problematic for the idea---magus of the turn all my lands to fricken mountains is a problem if I don't have removal in hand, extirpate and other forms of grave hate can be a problem as I'm frequently recurring things, Really quick decks can potentially be problematic if they put out more guys than I can handle and I can't find my hallowed burials. Land destruction sucks for obvious reasons (3 color deck) but I can sort of fight through it with coiling oracles, steves and wall of roots, also e.witness can get my lands back, but that typically means I get stuck at less land then I'd like or it becomes painful with life totals as there are a few shock lands and fetches.

[crazedferret]

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I need these cards for sure
4 hinder (I may end up running four)
1 hallowed burial
2 primal commands
3 gifts ungiven
1 wall of roots
1 body double
1 mirror entity
1 academy ruins
1 meddling mage
2 negate
1 trinket mage
1 chalice of the void
1 engineered explosives
1 fracturing gusts
1 sword of the meek
1 magus of the disk

And these I'm not so sure of, but need to know if anyone has and would be willing to loan
1 extirpate
1 cranial extraction

[John Galli]

I have some of that list, -

1x Saffi (from the other list Travis linked)
1 hinder
2 primal commands (maybe, although I thought I gave you 3-4)
1 wall of roots
1 mirror entity
1 academy ruins
1 meddling mage
2 negate
1 trinket mage
1 fracturing gusts
1 magus of the disk

I think from the list you posted above, a few minor changes I would do would be to take out the 3 coiling oracle and replace them with 1 additional path, 1 additional hinder, and 1 additional wall of roots. Wall of roots is a lot more versatile and much better at holding down your fort until you get to the point where you need to setup your combo pieces. He also allows you to ramp just like oracle would, and he can provide instant speed mana for things like Cryptic (which you did against me). He's also capable of blocking big guys like tarmogoyf or knight of reliquary if necessary.

The fourth path and fourth Hinder would help with matches like Dark Depths, Hypergenesis, etc, where you need to have that kind of card and thus running 4-ofs make sense. They're also decent utility cards against just about any deck. I'm not sure if Hinder is the right counterspell though, but it seems like your toying others so as long as a thought process is going that's the right way to be.

Other things you might want to consider IMO would be a few additional sideboard cards for faeries, zoo, and dredge. You have some tutorable 1-2-ofs, but that's generally not enough to stop one of those good decks. You may want to either add an additional number of the same cards, or have a different solution to the same problems.

Bant Charm is pretty dang good all the time, I'd say it could be argued for a 4-of.

Your mana breaks down fairly even, with a higher emphasis on white (if you count Iona's mana cost, if not they're all really even). But other than Path, your blue green is much more important to your early drops.
25 U 29 W 24 G (mana symbols)

So your current list seems ok, at least for not having 4-ofs of a lot of stuff. It's fairly mana-balanced. The only change I made below was the running of the G/W manland instead of treetop. I think ur right in that he fixes a bit better and a 3/4 body is nice to have. If the blue-white one tickles your fancy more, than that seems ok too although I'd reduce some other white sources.

3 temple garden
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 mystic gate
3 Stirring Wildwood
1 forest
1 plains
2 islands
4 reflecting pools
4 misty rainforest
2 flooded grove

[Travis Lannoye]

I have the following cards from your list, Pat:
- 4 Hinder (I think, if not it's cheap)
- 1 Hallowed Burial
- 3 Gifts Ungiven (I won't be using them)
- 1 Body Double
- 1 Mirror Entity
- 1 Academy Ruins
- 1 Meddling Mage
- 2 Negate
- 1 Trinket Mage
- 1 Chalice of the Void
- 1 Engineered Explosives
- 1 Fracturing Gust
- 1 Magus of the Disk
- 2 Breeding Pool
- 4 Hallowed Fountain
- 4 Misty Rainforest

I'm probably going to be using my Extirpates (still need to get a third somehow), but I'm fairly sure I won't be using the Gifts.

Additionally, I'm trying a BGW deck that works a lot like my Teneb EDH deck (which is really fun to play and very resiliant to hate). The list is:

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Wall of Roots
4 Eternal Witness
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Crypt Champion
2 Reveillark

3 Path to Exile
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Putrefy
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God

1 Blood Crypt
2 Godless Shrine
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Temple Garden
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Fetid Heath
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Bastion


Side:
- Extirpate
- Krosan Grip
- Celestial Purge
- Wall of Roots
- Kor Firewalker
- Aven Mindcensor