Evan
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by Evan on Oct 7, 2012 22:32:02 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think Jace is that good, and I've seen a lot of games where he's played. He's good right now, because his +1 is so relevant against the swarms of creatures commonly played. Against Thragtusk, Olivia, other midrange stuff he's not impressive at all.
Cheers
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Oct 8, 2012 10:06:37 GMT -5
In addition to a full set of shocks, I also have the following cards available for Saturday: - a full set of Innistrad duals (except maybe one or two Sulfur Falls) - a full set of Innistrad utility lands (Moorland Haunt, Township, etc) - 4 Entreat the Angels - 4 Terminus - 4 Talrand, Sky Summoner (PAT) - at least 1 Huntmaster of the Fells (didn't get a chance to check at home for more last night) - 4 Gravecrawlers - 4 Snapcaster Mage - 4 Cavern of Souls - 4 Liliana of the Veil - 4 Restoration Angel - 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - 4 Lingering Souls - 4 Detention Sphere (shipped today, hopefully they arrive by the weekend) - 4 Supreme Verdict (same as Detention Sphere)
I probably won't go to States just because I haven't put nearly enough time into practicing, but please let me know if anyone needs something for this weekend.
EDIT: I also have one Jace, Architect of Thought. If anyone has the other three Jaces and two Tamiyos, I'd consider playing the UWR Miracles deck.
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Post by crazedferret on Oct 8, 2012 14:16:25 GMT -5
Hey travis, if you are not playing this weekend, I'd like to.
In that case... could I borrow
4 terminus, 4 snapcaster, 2 detention sphere, 2 supreme verdict (if they arrive in time), 1 jace architect, 3 hollowed fountains? There might be a couple more lands in there that I'd need to borrow and I'm not 100% on talrand yet.
If you are going to play though, let me know as soon as possible so I can see if it is possible to audible into Frites. I'd rather play blue white control, though as I think it is well positioned already to take over.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Oct 8, 2012 14:38:59 GMT -5
Sure thing, Pat. The only ones that might not make it are the Spheres and Verdicts. I won a pre-sale on eBay for each of those a couple weeks ago, and they were supposed to ship on Friday, but it's still possible that something will happen and they won't be here.
The rest of my stuff is all in-hand. John said he is likely going to drop by on Wednesday after work to pick up some Jund stuff, so you could also swing by then if you like, or I could try to bring them to EDH on Thursday.
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Post by John Galli on Oct 8, 2012 15:14:08 GMT -5
I actually mentioned to Pat about stopping by his place after yours Travis to get some cards, so I could just grab the ones he needs from you too when I stop by (if that timing worked for you Pat) Also, more results from last weekend, TCG 5k- magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=2012%20TCGplayer%20Open%205K%20-%20HartfordThis deck in particular looked very good, although I'd tweak it heavily. Completely forgot Favorable Winds Existed- Esper Tokens 4 Augur of Bolas 3 Snapcaster Mage Creatures [7] 3 Favorable Winds 2 Forbidden Alchemy 4 Intangible Virtue 4 Lingering Souls 2 Midnight Haunting 1 Negate 2 Syncopate 4 Talrand's Invocation 3 Tragic Slip 1 Ultimate Price 4 Unsummon Spells [30] 4 Drowned Catacomb 2 Evolving Wilds 4 Glacial Fortress 4 Hallowed Fountain 3 Island 2 Plains 2 Swamp 2 Vault of the Archangel Lands [23] SIDEBOARD 1 ? 2 Dissipate 1 Duress 3 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Knight of Glory 1 Negate 1 Oblivion Ring 2 Purify the Grave 1 Rootborn Defenses 1 Ultimate Price I'd do the following changes- +1 Favorable Winds, +4 Drogskol Captain, +4 Doomed Traveler, +2 Midnight Haunting, +4 Angel of Jubilation, +1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, +1 Tragic Slip, +3 Azorious Charm, +1 Evolving Wilds -4 Augur of Bolas, -3 Snapcaster Mage, -1 Negate, -2 Syncopate, -4 Unsummon, -4 Talrand's Invocation, -1 Ultimate Price, -2 Forbidden Alchemy = Galli Esper Tokens 4 Doomed Traveler 4 Drogskol Captain 4 Angel of Jubilation Creatures [12] 4 Favorable Winds 3 Azorious Charm 4 Intangible Virtue 4 Lingering Souls 4 Midnight Haunting 4 Tragic Slip 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad Spells [24] 4 Drowned Catacomb 3 Evolving Wilds 4 Glacial Fortress 4 Hallowed Fountain 3 Island 2 Plains 2 Swamp 2 Vault of the Archangel Lands [24] Sideboard 4 Supreme Verdict 4 Detention Sphere 3 Tormod's Crypt 3 Rootborn Defenses 1 Azorious Charm
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Oct 8, 2012 17:09:38 GMT -5
So much hate for Augur of Bolas? That cards keeps the gas flowing and blocks all the one-drop Zombies.
If I was to play a deck like this, I would probably look at a couple of Talrands for additional value.
Those Talrand's Invocations really stick out like a sore thumb.
I could also see this kind of a deck having a lot of trouble with Miracles. Supreme Verdict, Bonfire, new Jace, Entreat, and Terminus all seem like they would really cause problems for this kind of deck.
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Post by crazedferret on Oct 8, 2012 18:59:01 GMT -5
Travis, I'd better borrow the Talrands too. I may not be able to get everything I want before the weekend, so that'd be a decent backup plan.
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Post by John Galli on Oct 8, 2012 23:11:58 GMT -5
The main reason for all the changes was to make it more like the b/w tokens deck I played in standard before. I liked that deck a ton, and its worst matchup (r/g aggro) hasn't reared it's head yet. That said, that list was just a 5 min redo by me so its probably not perfect.
I think talrand outside of a Delver shell is a really poor choice right now. He's just too slow and reliant on other cards to be even remotely reasonable and the decks already seen are too powerful for him. I initially thought he might be good but these decks are too powerful with lots of removal, and lots of power at the 4 spot.
Not sure if sweepers would be that big a deal. They weren't that difficult to beat before with b/w tokens just due to flashback and the sheer amount of token generators (and the original list runs snapcaster), not to mention I used to run 3-4 wraths myself in b/w tokens. You can play around stuff pretty easy or simply recover. New Jace is annoying detention sphere or oring would be either main or board. Augur is great Travis, I was just adjusting it to be more like my old list. I also don't like the lack of azorious charm in his list. B/w tokens almost always played out like a control deck except when you nut draw.
I proxied up 3 lists tonight and goldfished a bit. The U/W/R list that Todd Anderson won with is so fricken good. Azorious Charm is amazing and should be a x4 of in almost any deck that can play it. Jace is fantastic as he was in he stream I watched this weekend, sealed yesterday, and goldfish today. Not sure what you don't like about him Evan but I think he's nuts. Its not even that he himself is that good a card, but he draws off pressure, neuters armies, and takes a lot to kill.
Of the Jund deck, I wasn't too disappointed with it, it has some power although I think I probably want dreadbore main for planeswalkers. Rakdos Keyrune and Kessig Wolf Run seemed surprisingly strong. The former dodges a lot of removal, most importantly sweepers and can block / attack through thragtusk. The latter is good at giving my guys some extra reach. I think the deck may need another red source or two mana-wise and golgari charm probably needs room in the main versus the board. The -1/-1 is relevant against aggro and the enchantment hate is needed against detention sphere.
I'm a bit confused by the sideboard and have some possible additions that I was curious about. Do you guys have any idea what Liliana would be good against? Is it for control or aggro? It definitely seems awful against zombies and announcers have pretty much alluded to such. I'm considering the card slaughter games as it seems good against control and frites, the latter of which this deck narrowly lost to in the semis. Rakdos Charm seems like it could help that? The other question is whether or not to run lotleth troll and/or borderland ranger.
Also I'm thinking possible playtest session Thursday night at I'm bored or Netherworld depending on who has room and who could come
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Post by John Galli on Oct 9, 2012 6:23:25 GMT -5
Hilarious and Awesome article by Gavin Verhey. Loads of new ideas for Standard- www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/rc/216And more Travis Woo Brews- www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-dirt-cheap-dirty-red/--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This deck looked pretty cool at the end of Gavin's article- Conclave Tokens Main Deck 60 cards 3 Gavony Township 4 Isolated Chapel 4 Overgrown Tomb 2 Plains 4 Sunpetal Grove 4 Temple Garden 2 Vault of the Archangel 1 Woodland Cemetery 24 lands 4 Doomed Traveler 4 Loxodon Smiter 8 creatures 4 Call of the Conclave 4 Collective Blessing 4 Gather the Townsfolk 4 Intangible Virtue 4 Lingering Souls 2 Rootborn Defenses 22 other spells 3 Garruk Relentless 3 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad 6 planeswalkers
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Evan
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by Evan on Oct 9, 2012 23:16:43 GMT -5
I just don't think Jace's abilities do enough.
Played standard today with junk midrange, went 3-1. Every single match was against another midrange deck (bant, jund, 2x selesnya). I lost the final match due to some bad luck with him having double strike sigarda with rancor both games (I had 3 sigardas but never saw mine).
Cheers
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Post by John Galli on Oct 10, 2012 10:45:48 GMT -5
Yeah Sigarda seems like a real problem for this format. There's very little that kills her.
Since I'm most likely playing Jund, here's what I've been looking at among the slim pickins options, I'd be curious to hear from you guys which one/s you think are worth playing (either sideboard or main)-
Blasphemous Act, Bonfire of the Damned (the only real sweepers I have access to and they probably wouldn't be active when I need them)
Desecration Demon, Rakdos Lord of Riots (these are probably the more realistic option, just trying to fight power with power. Rakdos, Lord of Riots actually seems pretty good and was in Joe Bernal's sideboard for his aggro deck. Neither are a fantastic answer to Sigarda but probably worth playing)
Demonic Rising - This enchantment hasn't seen play outside of limited, but it might be a nice sideboard option. If I'm playing a match where I know I'm not going to have a big board presence, it's likely to trigger. Having say just Olivia on the battlefield and a trigger off this thing would be pretty nice. It's fairly narrow though. (Homicidial Seclusion; same concept with Olivia)
Elderscale Wurm - Prevents me from dying and might just win me the game outright in some matches (sideboard obviously like most of these cards)
Bloodline Keeper - Just chump all day, relevant in other matchups
Vampire Nighthawk - just realized this now, actually probably what I'll run since I had intended to have him in my board anyway against zombies and fast aggro. Rancor also seems pretty disgusting with this guy, might want to consider running that option somehow
Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis - probably too slow and too narrow, but an interesting choice nonetheless
Reaper from the Abyss - again, probably too narrow, but another funzie option
Deadly Recluse - yeah I'm mostly joking, but it is an option. Obviously Nighthawk is way better.
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Evan
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by Evan on Oct 10, 2012 22:43:20 GMT -5
Here's my jund list; I'm not that worried about Sigarda. Honestly, if I would have had any removal for silverblade paladin I'd have been fine.
Jund Midrange 4 Pillar of Flame 2 Mizzium Mortars 4 Farseek 3 Borderland Ranger 3 Rakdos Keyrune 4 Huntmaster of the Fells 4 Thragtusk 2 Bonfire of the Damned 3 Olivia Voladren 2 Radkos's Return 2 Sever the Bloodline 2 Dreadbore
4 Forest 2 Mountain 1 Swamp 3 Blood Crypt 1 Dragonskull Summit 2 Evolving Wilds 1 Kessig Wolf Run 3 Overgrown Tomb 4 Rootbound Crag 4 Woodland Cemetery
SB: 2 Deathrite Shaman 2 Rakdos Charm 2 Golgari Charm 1 Bonfire of the Damned 2 Liliana of the Veil 2 Duress 2 Sundering Growth 2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Cheers
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Post by John Galli on Oct 10, 2012 23:30:22 GMT -5
What matchups do Liliana and garruk come in for and why?
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Oct 11, 2012 8:44:43 GMT -5
Pat, not sure where you disappeared to last night, but if you still need to borrow cards, let me know. I'm planning on going to EDH tonight, and I can bring my stuff with me, or we can stop by my house before/after and you can grab them.
John pretty much grabbed all the Jund stuff that I have, but I still have all of the UW and UWR cards if you need them.
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Post by John Galli on Oct 11, 2012 8:55:03 GMT -5
@travis - yes Pat still needs da cards, apparently he talked to you before he talked to me, so he was expecting me to bring them over. I think he needs Jaces, Terminuses, lands, etc, etc (all the stuff he mentioned). We were both planning on coming to Misty tonight
@pat - Here's a few more decklists for you to look over that I've found on the interwebs in various articles since you were still pondering which direction to go-
Bant Control (9th, Cinci)-
Main Deck 1 Selesnya Keyrune 2 Angel of Serenity 4 Thragtusk 4 Detention Sphere 1 Azorius Charm 2 Selesnya Charm 3 Sphinx's Revelation 1 Think Twice 1 Entreat the Angels 4 Farseek 3 Supreme Verdict 4 Terminus 3 Jace, Architect of Thought 2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 2 Forest 3 Island 2 Plains 1 Evolving Wilds 4 Glacial Fortress 2 Hallowed Fountain 4 Hinterland Harbor 4 Sunpetal Grove 3 Temple Garden Sideboard 1 Angel of Serenity 2 Centaur Healer 3 Rest in Peace 1 Dissipate 2 Negate 1 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Garruk Relentless 1 Jace, Memory Adept 1 Entreat the Angels 1 Supreme Verdict
RUG Control (Silvestri Brew)-
Main Deck 3 Augur of Bolas 4 Snapcaster Mage 4 Thragtusk 4 Talrand's Invocation 4 Pillar of Flame 4 Farseek 3 Synopcate 2 Bonfire of the Damned 2 Devil's Play 1 Thoughtflare 2 Garruk Relentless 3 Jace, Architect of Thought 4 Steam Vents 4 Hinterland Harbor 4 Sulfur Falls 3 Izzet Guildgate 4 Forest 3 Rootbound Crag 2 Island Sideboard 1 Augur of Bolas 2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenuis 2 Negate 1 Dispel 1 Redirect 1 Thoughtflare 2 Mizzium Mortars 1 Devil's Play 1 Silklash Spider 3 Frostburn Weird
Rampnica (Travis Woo) -
2 Plains 4 Overgrown Tomb 5 Forest 4 Sunpetal Grove 4 Temple Garden 4 Vault of the Archangel 2 Gavony Township 4 Arbor Elf 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim 4 Farseek 4 Centaur Healer 4 Ranger's Path 3 Restoration Angel 4 Thragtusk 4 Armada Wurm
WU Control (Travis Woo)
2 Plains 4 Island 4 Glacial Fortress 4 Hallowed Fountain 4 Temple Garden 4 Sunpetal Grove 4 Hinterland Harbor 1 Cavern of Souls 4 Azorius Charm 3 Syncopate 4 Detention Sphere 4 Supreme Verdict 2 Jace, Architect of Thought 4 Thragtusk 4 Terminus 4 Angel of Serenity 4 Sphinx's Revelation 4 Angel of Serenity
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