States - October 13th

[John Galli]

So States is coming back very soon and I'm considering playing in it. If I do, my plan is to purchase most of what I need just prior to the tournament (probably the Sunday/Monday prior) and/or possibly borrow some. I know Randy (gren) is playing and am just curious who else might be.

I'm still tossing ideas around and waiting for the first SCG results next weekend, but one idea I was thinking about is UWB Delver centered around Talarand, Lingering Souls, Azorious Charm, Populate, and possibly Talarand's invocation although that might be overcosted and unnecessary. The deck would essentially be a tokens deck but have access to counterspells and would have the card advantage and power that cards like lingering souls provide. One of the reasons I think this could do well is the fact that several of these cards are popular in standard and do well while at the same time they can be strengthened by the new populate mechanic. I think the combo of lingering souls and Talarand is pretty back-breaking, and the new suite of dual lands that we got makes it a lot easier to get this manabase working.

There's three other ideas floating in mind but that's my primary one. The other ideas would be -

A.) Wait for an SCG deck to show up.
B.) R/G Aggro
C.) Mono Red with Stromkirk, Ash Zealot, Pillar of Flame, and the new 3 mana burn spell that exiles (all these cards keeping zombies in mind.

B/G and B/R zombies looks like the archetype to beat right out of the gate (and looks insane) and while I actually would really enjoy playing it, I think there's going to be a lot of hate and a lot of mirror matches abound.

Ideas? Thoughts? (and please save the "don't play the deck your ideas are all bad commentary for another lifetime )

[abeckett]

Esper Delver is probably pretty strong, although also fairly expensive to put together if you're starting from scratch.

Honestly, many of the three color combos would probably work pretty good and all give you interesting options. If I was playing, I would probably be looking at UWB or URW. URB could also be strong.

The red splash seems like a good idea to me, since I agree zombies looks like the DTB post-rotation. Being able to get more mileage out of them with Snapcaster seems pretty good as well.

[crazedferret]

Thinking about it. I have a box coming and I need to see how much for some of the other cards I'd like to play as well as at least some expected lists. I know delver and zombies but not much else at this moment.

My interests would be along the same lines as randy. I think there's probably a strong Green/Black/possibly White walker deck in there somewhere.

As for delver, I would think the red splash would be solid as there are cards that'll take care of the early annoyances permanently-- in particular that magma spray like card that rfgs when it kills things would be good with snapcaster (rfg two zombies in particular).

[Evan]

Definately zombies are the deck to beat and I'd make sure you playtest against them. They have an insane amount of raw power. SCG has posted some playtest videos, and even decks that I'd say should have a decent chance against zombies are getting overpowered (decks with 4 pillars of flame and 2 annihiling fires). I'd be tempted to make a deck specifically to beat zombies/agro decks, maxing out on centaur healers, thragtusk, etc.


Cheers

[Travis Lannoye]

Let me know if anyone needs to borrow anything. I have a full set of shocks, Gravecrawlers, Talrands, Restoration Angels, Snapcasters, and more if necessary.

[John Galli]

Good deal thanks for the feedback guys. Travis are you thinking of playing? I'm not 100% sure but I'd like to.

One issue with any deck with Red in it would probably mean purchasing bonfire which would mean I couldn't afford the rest of the deck. I'd like to try to get something that I could theoretically keep for the season rather than just borrow half of it for the tournament. I think Delver wouldn't be too bad. The snapcasters would be like $80 and useable in legacy and the rest is pretty much the lands. Restoration Angel is in some builds but not all of them anymore and probably not in the one I was considering above.

Evan I saw the videos were on scg but haven't watched them, that's pretty nuts that they fought through that kind of hate. I wonder if its just worth it to play zombies and read up on the mirror as the deck is already right up my alley of playstyle and I did get some cards for it at the prereleases in my pool.

[Travis Lannoye]

Standard doesn't really excite me much anymore, now that I've gotten into the Legacy scene. If there's a deck out there that appeals to me and doesn't require a huge investment to build, I'll consider it, and I'll certainly help with testing if anyone needs it (I can play "the field").

[John Galli]

Understandable.

On another note, I noticed that places still have the Avacyn Restored "Death's Encroach" Event deck instock for a very reasonable price which would make Zombies pretty easy to obtain. The deck includes a Gravecrawler and a Geralf's Messenger along with most of the uncommons/commons needed (and a Surgical Extraction for Modern or Legacy purposes). Currently, Troll and Toad retails both of those singles for $10.50, yet the Event Deck sells for $17.99. So I could always buy 4 of them for $72 and have a playset of everything + extras of the little stuff.

[abeckett]

That actually sounds like a decent plan, if you want to go mono-black.

The green splash sounds very pricey. Between both types of duals, Lotleth, and Abrupt Decay; the price climbs very fast.

[Evan]

I think Jund Zombies or G/B are the best. I'd make jund if I was doing it (playing lol troll, aristocrat, and bonfire). One of the older playtest videos was jund and it definitely impressed me. 3 colors is quite supportable with the manabase available.


Cheers

[Travis Lannoye]

Ya, pretty easy to splash red with two black shock-lands available, and Bonfire is certainly a powerful card to have in your list.

If I can pick up Messengers for cheap, I might consider building the B/G version, since I don't have Bonfires and am not likely to pick any up soon.

[John Galli]

No Kidding Andrew on the prices. I looked at it this morning and quickly realized that even with that great deal on the zombie event deck the green element adds tons of $$ to it. I wouldn't mind borrowing the duals from someone like Travis (even though I did get x1 Overgrown Tomb and x1 Blood Crypt on Sunday from the Prerelease), but even with that I'd have to get a second Vraska possibly, maybe Liliana, Trolls, and the Decays. It all gets a little absurd.

I think I'm going to sit tight and wait for the SCG results to come in. I have a million other expenses at the moment and debt, so it's probably not a great purchase to beginwith. It'd be nice to play States though and if I did get a deck I'd plan on attending at least a few SCG events over this year. I was hoping that if I did get a deck it would be about a $200-220 investment or less.

[Travis Lannoye]

I have all of the duals in the current format, so that should cut into the price tag quite a bit. I'm also working on acquiring Abrupt Decays and Lotleth Trolls for Legacy, so that might further help with expenses.

[John Galli]

Here's a rough draft of what I was thinking for the delver idea I mentioned above-

UWB Delver (Post RTR)

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Knight of Glory
1 Augur of Bolas
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Talrand, Sky Summoner

2 Unsummon
4 Thought Scour
4 Feeling of Dread
3 Syncopate
4 Azorious Charm
4 Lingering Souls
(38 spells)

4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Azorious Guildgate
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Island
(22 Lands)

Some other considerations:

Judge's Familiar
Supreme Verdict
Righteous Authority
Detention Sphere
Dramatic Rescue
Cyclonic Rift
Inaction Injunction
Jace, Architect of Thought (sideboard)
Mana Leak
Eyes in the Skies
Talrand's Invocation
Runechanter's Pike
Spectral Flight

[abeckett]

Nice list. Here are some changes I would consider: (take all of this with the grain of salt that I rarely pay attention to T2, but have plenty of experience brewing controlish decks for the undefined meta that is states)
-3 Knight of Glory - pro-black is nice, but probably better in the SB if the goal is to fight zombies. Main might be fine if we anticipate it will be a huge chunk of the meta.
-1 Augur of Bolas - I like the guy, but the one of just seems kind of weak. I would much rather focus on spells that flip delver early on or go all in with him
-2 Unsummon - Cylconic Rift
-3 Geist - or -x amount. I feel like you'll want to focus more on either the instant side of things with Talrand or the beat down route. I almost like geist more in the board for facing control decks. Since aggro tends to dominate states, you may just end up with too my situations where he has to sit back and chump block. Without mana leak, there are just too many situations where he will be dead on the board when you go to drop him.
-4 Feeling of Dread - since you're in black, I would consider running actual removal or running O-ring.
-3x Syncopate - Dissipate just does this better in a non-conditional way

Additions:
+4 Judge's Familiar - some number of these is good. This guy is awesome. It slows down opposing control decks and beats in the air. There's reason Cursecatcher is a crucial 1-drop in merfolk.
+3-4 Dissipate - really strong counter in the current environment. Keeps some of zombies' stuff dead for good
+4 Cyclonic Rift - This card is just amazing in its utility. It provides awesome tempo and there are times it will just destroy your opponents or clear the way for a win. I can't see any reason not to run is as a 4x with Snapcaster in a deck. This is the swiss army knife of bounce spells.
+1-2 Negate - good counter that stops a lot of the more problematic permanents. Probably the best counter in the 2cc slot since Mana Leak rotated.
+x Oblivion Ring/Detention Sphere - Ring is cheaper and, honestly, probably just as effective. Running O-ring prevents those awkward situations where you have to hit your opponent's delver
+3 Supreme Verdict between Main/SB - You'll want this at some point, but I'm not sure what ratio is right between the two.

A piece of removal I feel might warrant some attention is Ultimate Price. It does depend on what some of the lists look like from that pre-states SCG event, but that is a pretty splashable removal spell if gold creatures don't take over the environment.

Also, I agree with anything running red pretty much feeling like it needs to run Bonfire. That's really kind of a shame.