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Post by John Galli on Nov 5, 2012 10:31:14 GMT -5
I know there are many outlets for this online, but I was wondering if you folks on this forum would help me design a budget EDH deck (our usual $50). I've been getting pretty bored of my current decks, and I want to construct something new but everytime I start typing up google docs and scouring cards on magiccards.info I feel like I have very little direction. I think up some cool themes but I need some outside the Galli-box thinking.
Thus, I was wondering if you guys could help me out. Maybe we could brainstorm a General and then some toolbox or ideas for a sweet deck. We did this for Ornstein when he first got into EDH (albeit at his house) and I thought the deck we came up with in tandem was pretty awesome. It always helps when multiple people weigh in and access power levels/ideas
Let me know
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Post by abeckett on Nov 5, 2012 15:14:26 GMT -5
I'm game. Is there a particular focus you want to take though? Combat focused? Combo? ETB abuse? Tokens? What decks do you have right now and do you want something totally different from them?
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Post by John Galli on Nov 5, 2012 17:29:38 GMT -5
Yeah I'd like to do something different than the Kresh and Rafiq decks. The Rafiq deck is pure beatdown, the Kresh deck has some synergy between ETB creatures, pandamonium style enchantments, etc, but it needs a lot of work.
Not sure which direction would be most fun for the new deck. I'd want it to be fun but not the worst deck at the table either. My brainstorms that ended early involved the following thus far-
1.) A U/W/R deck with various toolboxes such as Sunforger, Trinket/Treasure Mages, etc. + a lot of reuseability to the cards.
2.) A Mono Blue Empress Galina deck with lots of control magic, counterspells, and clones
3.) A 5-Color Horde of Notions Elementals deck (looked to be a little to hard to fit inside the $50 shell)
But to be honest I'm game for a completely different General / Direction. I'd like to have some cool card synergy and interactions, that's ideally something I'm looking to have fun with. I'm tired of just playing decks based on pure card power or beatdown and I have trouble spotting cool tricks.
For reference, here were the early lists I was just midly going over-
[EDH] $50 Zedruu the Greathearted
Commander (1) 1 Zedruu the Greathearted
Creatures (22) 1 Aether Adept 1 Aethersnipe 1 Ashling the Pilgrim 1 Beast of Burden 1 Braids, Conjurer Adept 1 Celestial Force 1 Clone 1 Drift of Phantasms 1 Ethereal Usher 1 Flamekin Harbinger 1 Hateflayer 1 Ingot Chewer 1 Kami of the Crescent Moon 1 Magmatic Force 1 Magmaw 1 Man-o’-War 1 Mulldrifter 1 Phyrexian Juggernaut 1 Roil Elemental 1 Steel Hellkite 1 Treasure Mage 1 Trinket Mage
Artifacts (21) 1 Aether Spellbomb 1 Amulet of Vigor 1 Armillary Sphere 1 Brittle Effigy 1 Claws of Gix 1 Crystal Ball 1 Darksteel Pendant 1 Elixir of Immortality 1 Everflowing Chalice 1 Explorer’s Scope 1 Font of Mythos 1 Howling Mine 1 Scrabbling Claws 1 Sigil of Distinction 1 Staff of Nin 1 Sunforger 1 Temple Bell 1 Tormod’s Crypt 1 Urza’s Blueprints 1 Wayfarer’s Bauble 1 Well of Discovery
Enchantments (4) 1 Cessation 1 Cloud Cover 1 Dissipation Field 1 Infinite Reflection
Instants (7) 1 Burning Oil 1 Cackling Counterpart 1 Capsize 1 Crib Swap 1 Feeling of Dread 1 Muddle the Mixture 1 Spin Into Myth
Sorceries (6) 1 Artful Dodge 1 Divine Reckoning 1 Grasp of Phantoms 1 Rite of Replication 1 Silent Departure 1 Recurring Insight
Lands (39) 1 Azorious Guildgate 1 Boros Garrison 1 Evolving Wilds 1 Halimar Depths 1 Izzet Boilerworks 1 Izzet Guildgate 1 Rupture Spire 1 Sejiri Refuge 1 Sunhome, Fortress of Legion 1 Terramorphic Expanse 1 Transguild Promenade 1 Vivid Crag 1 Vivid Creek 1 Vivid Meadow 27 Basics
[EDH] $50 Clone / Steal Deck Commander (1) 1 Empress Galina
Creatures (24) 1 Body Double 1 Clone 1 Cryptoplasm 1 Quicksilver Gargantuan 1 Renegade Doppleganger 1 Shapesharer 1 Vesuvan Doppleganger 1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter 1 Cytoplast Manipulator 1 Master Thief 1 Roil Elemental 1 Thalakos Deceiver 1 Seasinger 1 Consecrated Sphinx 1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur 1 Sphinx of Lost Truths 1 Sphinx Ambassador 1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle 1 Sharding Sphinx 1 Sphinx of Magosi 1 Sphinx of Uthuun 1 Palladium Myr 1 Beguiler of Wills 1 Frost Titan
Artifacts (3) 1 Worn Powerstone 1 Journeyer’s Kite 1 Crystal Ball
Enchantments (8) 1 Legacy’s Allure 1 Blatant Thievery 1 Confiscate 1 Mind Unbound 1 Rhystic Study 1 Back from the Brink 1 Followed Footsteps 1 Infinite Reflection
Instants (22) 1 Commandeer 1 Dominate 1 Ray of Command 1 Reins of Power 1 Brainstorm 1 Blue Sun’s Zenith 1 Capsize 1 Cackling Counterpart 1 Spin Into Myth 1 Counterspell 1 Cancel 1 Counterlash 1 Dismiss 1 Dissipate 1 Essence Scatter 1 Exclude 1 Faerie Trickery 1 Hinder 1 Miscalcuation 1 Muddle the Mixture 1 Rewind 1 Spell Crumble
Sorceries (4) 1 Govern the Guildless 1 Preordain 1 Ponder 1 Rite of Replication
Lands (38)
[EDH] $75 Horde of Notions (Bringer)
Commander (1) 1 Horde of Notions
Creatures (36) 1 Animar, Soul of Elements 1 Ashling the Pilgrim 1 Body Double 1 Briarhorn 1 Bringer of the Black Dawn 1 Bringer of the Blue Dawn 1 Bringer of the Green Dawn 1 Bringer of the Red Dawn 1 Bringer of the White Dawn 1 Chameleon Colossus 1 Clone 1 Cloudthresher 1 Cryptoplasm 1 Elderwood Scion 1 Evil Twin 1 Fertilid 1 Festercreep 1 Flamekin Harbinger 1 Flickerwisp 1 Hateflayer 1 Igneous Pouncer 1 Incandescent Soulstoke 1 Ingot Chewer 1 Mulldrifter 1 Renegade Doppleganger 1 Shapesharer 1 Shinewend 1 Shriekmaw 1 Skullbriar, the Walking Grave 1 Smokebraider 1 Soul of the Harvest 1 Spitebellows 1 Splinterfright 1 Supreme Exemplar 1 Void Stalker 1 Wispmare
Artifacts (1) 1 Crystal Ball
Enchantments (1) 1 Lurking Predators
Instants (15) 1 Azorius Charm 1 Bant Charm 1 Crib Swap 1 Crosis’s Charm 1 Esper Charm 1 Golgari Charm 1 Grixis Charm 1 Izzet Charm 1 Jund Charm 1 Nameless Inversion 1 Naya Charm 1 Rakdos Charm 1 Rith’s Charm 1 Selesnya Charm 1 Treva’s Charm
Sorceries (5) 1 All Suns’ Dawn 1 Cultivate 1 Farseek 1 Kodama’s Reach 1 Rampant Growth
Lands (14) 1 Arcane Sanctum 1 Crosis’s Catacombs 1 Crumbling Necropolis 1 Darigaaz’s Caldera 1 Dromar’s Cavern 1 Exotic Orchard 1 Jungle Shrine 1 Primal Beyond 1 Rith’s Grove 1 Rupture Spire 1 Savage Lands 1 Seaside Citadel 1 Transguild Promenade 1 Treva’s Ruins 27 Basics
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Post by JediCheese on Nov 6, 2012 13:52:37 GMT -5
I would love to help, but designing 3 decks in one thread seems like a mess. Plus with it being $50 decks, it would help if we agreed on a single source of card prices (and then put the price of cards next to your suggestions).
Empress Galina needs Leyline of Singularity so you can steal whatever you want.
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Post by John Galli on Nov 6, 2012 16:03:50 GMT -5
Forgot to mention I used SCG for pricing.
Also, those decklists weren't what I wanted to use, just casual ideas. If you read the first paragraph I mentioned I wanted to come up with something new, and 1 list, not 3.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 6, 2012 22:27:52 GMT -5
Star city has much higher prices than channel fireball, and both have the same deck builder tool.
How about mono red kumano? Pump out a ton of man's and burn stuff up.
I'll think of some more ideas at work.
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Post by John Galli on Nov 7, 2012 9:24:15 GMT -5
At first I posted something in contrary to what you said Travis and also about how CFB is always out of stock of stuff, but looking at it more closely SCG is still way overpriced even on commander budget cards. Thanks for the heads up.
Not sure I'm onboard with mono red for the commander, I was thinking multi-color and more toolboxes. The decklists above were just rough sketches of stuff I thought of prior to the group design idea, but I'd be more interested in starting from scratch. Keep the ideas coming and I'll try to hone in on more stuff that I want.
Toolbox stuff would be fun-
Saffi Eriksdotter + Order of Whiteclay
Sunforger + Instants
Trinket/Treasure Mage + Artifacts
Etc. Or little mini-combos.
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Post by John Galli on Nov 7, 2012 9:32:58 GMT -5
Here's a place where we could start. I was forming two Naya Shells, one a Rith Tokens deck, the other a toolbox deck which could be Teneb or Karador as well.
[EDH] $50 Rith the Awakener (CFB Prices)
Commander (1) 1 Rith, the Awakener
Creatures (19) 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder 1 Requiem Angel 1 Thraben Doomsayer 1 Verdant Force 1 Elder of Laurels 1 Geist-Honored Monk 1 Sylvan Ranger 1 Captain of the Watch 1 Victory’s Herald 1 Terastodon 1 Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage 1 Wayfaring Temple 1 Wild Beastmaster 1 Kazandu Tuskcaller 1 Sunblast Angel 1 Knight-Captain of Eos 1 Predator Dragon 1 Emeria Angel 1 Hellkite Charger
Artifacts (1) 1 Crystal Ball
Enchantments (12) 1 Glory of Warfare 1 Predatory Advantage 1 Druids’ Repository 1 Fervor 1 Fires of Yavimaya 1 Collective Blessing 1 Growing Ranks 1 True Conviction 1 Goblin Assault 1 Vicious Shadows 1 Marshall’s Anthem 1 Beastmaster Ascension
Instants (8) 1 Ray of Revelation 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Into the Core 1 White Sun’s Zenith 1 Oblation 1 Selesnya Charm 1 Naya Charm 1 Return to Dust
Sorceries (21) 1 Burn at the Stake 1 Kodama’s Reach 1 Cultivate 1 Earthquake 1 Hour of Reckoning 1 Increasing Devotion 1 Storm Herd 1 Overrun 1 Creeping Corrosion 1 Phyrexian Rebirth 1 Hellion Eruption 1 Primal Growth 1 Farseek 1 Growth Spasm 1 Nomad’s Assembly 1 World at War 1 Titanic Ultimatum 1 Rampant Growth 1 Chain Reaction 1 Conqueror’s Pledge 1 Explosive Vegetation
Lands (38) 1 Evolving Wilds 1 Terramorphic Expanse 1 Hellion Crucible 1 Grove of the Gaurdian 1 Jungle Shrine 1 Rith’s Grove 1 Graypelt Refuge 1 Kazandu Refuge 1 Exotic Orchard 1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood 1 Sejiri Steppe 1 Khalni Garden 1 Selesnya Guildgate 1 Selesyna Sanctuary 1 Boros Garrison 1 Gruul Turf 1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits 1 Sunhome, Fortress of Legion 1 Karpulsan Forest 1 Brushland 1 Battlefield Forge 17 Basics
$50 Toolbox (either RGW, BGW, or GW)
Dauntless Escort Qasali Pridemage Order // Chaos Orim's Thunder Ulvenwald Tracker Sakura-Tribe Elder Yavimaya Elder Volcanic Fallout Ray of Revelation Condemn Pure // Simple Ancient Grudge Chastise Brion Stoutarm Crib Swap Sun Titan Into the Core Puresteel Paladin Diligent Farmhand Oblation Sunforger Mimic Vat Wing Shards Order of Whiteclay Return to Dust Saffi Eriksdotter Mistveil Plains (Out of Stock)
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 7, 2012 11:01:57 GMT -5
Yeah, their site has gotten better recently. Even though they still don't have the best selection of in-stock stuff, they are at least showing prices for things that they don't have readily available, which helps a lot with this particular exercise. If SCG isn't cutting it, you could always try something like CardKingdom or CoolStuffInc just for comparison's sake. I honestly don't know if they would be better than SCG, but it probably doesn't hurt to try. @toolboxes: Trinkets and Treasures would be pretty easy. Aside from Top and Sol Ring, the rest of the good Trinkets are basically just spellbombs. The Treasures are a little tougher, but you can still do some good things with the likes of Staff of Nin, Spine of Ish Sah, and various Sphinxes. Sunforger might be a little harder, because the white tutors are generally pretty expensive (Stoneforge, E Tutor, and even Stonehewer are all probably too pricey for a budget list). So, in order to consistently find Sunforger, you'd likely have to dip into a third color. Green doesn't play well with artifacts, so it's probably gonna be either blue or black, which would require a more complex manabase. On another note, I took a look at this budget EDH forum and found a couple more ideas to consider: - Budget Teneb (sorta)- Thromok the Insatiable- Budget Thada AdelHope this is helpful. EDIT: Couple of other ideas you could try...Krenko goblins (should be pretty easy to spit out a horde of boggarts), or Talrand (using a bunch of cheap instants/sorceries and adding 2/2 Drakes for even more value).
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Post by John Galli on Nov 7, 2012 12:17:58 GMT -5
Duly noted, those are some good points and Krenko or Talarand would definitely be Generals that I think would interest me. Again I'd prefer not to be mono color if possible, but both of those are really fun Generals with a lot of build around capability.
If I did go the toolbox route, here's a rough list of what I was thinking thus far (this is sitting at $50 on channel fireball thanks to some great prices). I'd like to hear suggestions on it if you guys have some.
Just a quick few notes; I know traditionally Mayael decks run more creatures and more Mayael targets, but this deck has some side plans and a decent amount of ramp to just straight up cast the big fatties or go a different route. Also, I probably want more nonbasics so I could shave a few cards here and there. It's rough thus far, but hence, the group design project (oh and puresteel paladin is getting cut unless I can build around him more)
[EDH]$50 Mayael the Anima Toolbox Deck
Commander (1) 1 Mayael the Anima
Creatures (28)
1 Saffi Eriskdotter 1 Order of Whiteclay 1 Diligent Farmhand 1 Puresteel Paladin 1 Sun Titan 1 Brion Stoutarm 1 Yavimaya Elder 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder 1 Ulvenwald Tracker 1 Qasali Pridemage 1 Dauntless Escort 1 Fierce Empath 1 Sylvan Ranger 1 Farhaven Elf 1 Stonehewer Giant 1 Hoarding Dragon 1 Grim Poppet 1 Pathrazer of Ulamog 1 Terastodon 1 Steel Hellkite 1 Hateflayer 1 Flameblast Dragon 1 Paleoloth 1 Meglonoth 1 Spearbreaker Behemoth 1 Spellbreaker Behemoth 1 Bogardan Hellkite 1 Artisan of Kozilek
Artifacts (8)
1 Whispersilk Cloak 1 Moonsilver Spear 1 Lightning Greaves 1 Gruul Signet 1 Boros Signet 1 Selesnya Signet 1 Sunforger 1 Mimic Vat
Enchantments (2)
1 Fires of Yavimaya 1 Greater Good
Instants (17)
1 Order // Chaos 1 Orim's Thunder 1 Volcanic Fallout 1 Condemn 1 Pure // Simple 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Chastise 1 Crib Swap 1 Into the Core 1 Embolden 1 Oblation 1 Emerge Unscathed 1 Staggershock 1 Wing Shards 1 Return to Dust 1 Burning Oil 1 Ray of Revelation
Sorceries (6)
1 Kodama's Reach 1 Austere Command 1 Cultivate 1 Farseek 1 Growth Spasm 1 Rampant Growth
Land (38)
1 Phyrexia's Core 1 Jungle Shrine 1 Terramorphic Expanse 1 Evolving Wilds 1 Rith's Grove 1 Rupture Spire 1 Transguild Promenade 1 Exotic Orchard 30 Basics
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 7, 2012 12:48:47 GMT -5
So, it looks like you are using R/W for the Sunforger package, and then G/W for the small utility creatures package...is that accurate?
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Post by John Galli on Nov 7, 2012 13:18:05 GMT -5
yeah. I also redid my Rith list using Channel Fireball, allowed me to fit in a boatload of non-basic lands (it's edited in the posts above)
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 7, 2012 16:38:14 GMT -5
OK, the first thing I'd do is revamp the Sunforger package a little bit. This thread has always been a good resource: forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=325437I'd probably cut Embolden, Staggershock, and Burning Oil. I know that flashback gives a lot of added value to a card, but these three just seem kinda wimpy. Also, there needs to be room for some sort of copy effect like Reiterate or Reverberate, and also some sort of redirect spell like Reiterate or Wild Ricochet. Congregation at Dawn is a Sunforger target that no one ever thinks about because it's green. I might cut Moonsilver Spear because the 8 total mana to cast/equip it is pretty huge, not to mention you need to actually make it to your combat step in order to profit, and then you just get a vanilla 4/4 flyer for your effort. You'd need to make at least 2-3 of these to make it worth your mana investment.
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Post by John Galli on Nov 7, 2012 17:35:33 GMT -5
I'm with ya on Embolden and Staggershock. I think Burning Oil is a little more useful then credit given, even in EDH.
Congregation at Dawn is awesome, forgot about that one and it's just a great EDH card in general. Ditto to Wild Ricochet, although I'm not wild about the other copy cards. There's just a certain nostaligic joy for Ricochet
That thead you linked to looks pro, so many cards!
The spear was one of the cards on my chopping block, for some of the reasons you mentioned, so I could easily see cutting it.
So just doing a little bit of that
-1 Embolden -1 Staggershock -1 Moonsilver Spear -1 Burning Oil? +1 Congregation at Dawn +1 Wild Ricochet +1 Naya Charm +1 Rith's Charm?
Should Divine Reckoning be in the deck? It seems fairly decent to me since if you play it off sunforger you're likely keeping the guy the forger is equipped to around which is also likely a fairly beefy creature if it's got that equipment attached to it. Flashback doesn't hurt either. Not sure how great Reckoning is though
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 8, 2012 9:09:18 GMT -5
Divine Reckoning isn't an instant, so it doesn't work with Sunforger.
Copy effects like Reiterate and Reverberate aren't game-breaking by any means, but they are very subtlely effective. Copying someone else's Demonic Tutor/Vindicate/Time Warp never hurts. For a toolbox card like Sunforger, it's definitely an effect that you wanna have.
Another question: how much do you really like green as your third color? The random green fatties don't really add much to your strategy, whereas adding blue would give you random counterspells to pull out of your Sunforger (Absorb, Double Negative, etc) as well as tutors like Fabricate to dig it up, and clone effects to give you more Sunforgers.
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