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Post by John Galli on May 3, 2013 9:01:25 GMT -5
So I've been tooling around and having fun with Pack Rat online. While he's not that good a strategy lets just say I've won a lot of games and enjoyed my opponents doing a lot of rage-quitting. My list has been changing a lot, there's a lot of choices for cards. I'm keeping some cards like Liliana out just because I don't have the budget and I don't want to borrow for a casual deck, but here's the most recent list I was running- FNM (List played online today) 22 Swamp 2 Ghost Quarter (24 Lands) 4 Typhoid Rats 4 Ravenous Rats 4 Pack Rat 4 Desecration Demon (16 Creatures) 3 Cremate 3 Devour Flesh 3 Tragic Slip 2 Murder 3 Appetite for Brains 3 Mutilate 3 Sign in Blood (20 Spells) Sideboard: 3 Duress 2 Shimian Specter 2 Veilborn Ghoul 2 Underworld Connections 1 Cremate 1 Devour Flesh 1 Tragic Slip 1 Appetite for Brains 1 Mutilate 1 Sign in Blood Surprisingly, Cremate has been arguably the strongest card in the deck, but of course the removal + desecration demon is also pretty bonkers. The deck's biggest issue is not having a big board presence until you're already in the "winning" stage, but pack rat if left unchecked can take over a game. If I had more cash and if Mox had more in stock I'd probably be running stuff like Bloodline Keeper, etc. There's a lot of things that can go in this deck, my google doc with ideas is a mile long.
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Post by JediCheese on May 3, 2013 9:35:06 GMT -5
When you say you are playing online, are you playing on MTGO?
I've been thinking of purchasing RDW for MTGO and playing in a bunch of standard grinders to learn the MTGO client. Then I'll draft pretty hardcore once I've figured out how to use the client.
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Post by John Galli on May 3, 2013 10:39:17 GMT -5
No, cockatrice. Spending money on online magic is just retaytay to me. I realize all the things you can do to make the cost not a factor, but it's just not my thang.
play.woogerworks.com is the alternate cockatrice server. I have all the files and such if you need them.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on May 3, 2013 13:25:02 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat as John about MTGO. It's hard enough to maintain a paper collection without having to try and maintain a separate collection online. Witte and some others feel differently, and I can understand the desire to explore the MTGO world (especially if you don't have a good local group to play with IRL), but I think I'll be sticking to the paper stuff.
Also, Cockatrice is more than enough for the little time I get to actually play Magic when I'm in front of a computer.
ANYWHO, the Pack Rat deck looks pretty sweet. The only card that I think would pose a problem for a deck like this is Supreme Verdict (and technically Mutilate, although very few people actually play that card). What are your thoughts on trying to combat decks that run 4 or more wraths? My first thought would be Lotleth Troll, since it functions very much like a Pack Rat, but survives Verdict.
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Post by John Galli on May 3, 2013 13:29:38 GMT -5
Appetite for braiiiiins
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Post by Travis Lannoye on May 3, 2013 13:32:58 GMT -5
BRAAAAAAINZZ!!! So...it sounds like you're hoping to just discard the first one and then race/play around it? EDIT: This deck looks hot and I'll try to jam some games on Cockatrice with it. Gilded Drake 2013!
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Post by John Galli on May 3, 2013 13:46:02 GMT -5
Yeah play around is the basic idea. You run your own wraths (mutilates) and both pack rat and demon are difficult to deal with. Game 1 against the field is OK, but the board helps tighten it up. Its a funzie deck at the end of the day but I definitely wallop'd some people and made them severely angry.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on May 3, 2013 14:17:32 GMT -5
I feel like my Esper list would be the absolute worst matchup for a deck like this...I have 5 main-deck wraths, a bunch of planeswalkers, and 4 Lingering Souls to back them up.
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Post by John Galli on May 3, 2013 15:41:18 GMT -5
Yeah prolly. That deck is pretty good as we all know and for some reason doesnt get played much (at all locally). So far lists I've beat that were standard are boros deck wins, junk rites, and some midrange. I mean this is a brew, it needs a lot of work and its rats afterall. I just wanted to beat some face with pack rat
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Post by Travis Lannoye on May 3, 2013 17:38:54 GMT -5
I feel like Dreadbore and Slaughter Games would answer a lot of the problems with this deck, so I'm going to try a red splash for a bit and see if it shores up the two big problems I see with it.
Also going to add at least one Curse of Death's Hold for the Lingering Souls problem.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on May 3, 2013 19:00:18 GMT -5
Another option, borrowed from a recent video by Conley Woods, would be to add blue for Sphinx of the Chimes.
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Post by John Galli on May 4, 2013 0:26:26 GMT -5
One thing I would do though is not judge too much before putting in the testing time. It's easy to make quick evaluations on paper that may not be fully fleshed out. Also, the list does have a lot of constraints due to my budget, it's 100% the primary reason I went mono black. Adding colors and big rares is obviously better, I just wanted to see if I could A.) Have fun , and B.) Be somewhat competitive at the FNM level. It easily accomplished that goal.
I finished 2-2 at FNM, winning a pack. I easily could have won each round, I completely punted a for sure win on board in the last round when I was up a game due to carelessness, and then barely lost game 3, and my 2nd round I got stuck on 3 land for 4 turns with the stone nuts in hand.
Overall - Rnd1 beat Naya Ramp 2-0, Rnd 2 lost to Junk Rites 0-2 (which I was clobbering online), Rnd 3 beat G/R aggro (the new version) 2-0, and Rnd 4 lost to UWR 2-1. I slightly modified my earlier list and would make more modifications in the future but it was definitely a blast. People around and against me got some laughs and had fun, and at one point I sat at a table next to the other pack rat player and we proceeded to hand our opponents asses to them on the back of giant Pack Rats.
FNM List-
22 Swamp 2 Ghost Quarter
4 Typhoid Rats (should cut) 4 Ravenous Rats (surprisingly good) 4 Pack Rat (OK. Not great but fun) 4 Desecration Demon (guy is bonkers)
3 Tragic Slip 3 Devour Flesh 3 Mutilate 3 Cremate 3 Sign in Blood 3 Appetite for Brains 2 Murder (very good)
Sideboard 2 Shimian Specter (ok, not great) 2 Underworld Connections (great) 2 Curse of Death's Hold (good) 1 Staff of Nin (straight awesome) 1 Duress (good) 1 Appetite for Brains (solid, did what I wanted) 1 Mutilate (absolute must) 1 Tragic Slip (good when you want it, lot of targets in std) 1 Devour Flesh (necessary effect) 1 Cremate (this card is really insane) 1 Veilborn Ghoul (pretty sweet with pack rat against control) 1 Sign in Blood (bread and butter in the deck)
Pros: - Demon and Pack Rat are must answer threats. Most games that you can stick a demon or two are gg against both aggro and control. Pack Rat's initial power and toughness can make him a liability against any decks with burn but he still demands to be answered. This makes him pretty solid in that role.
- the removal, discard, and draw suite was pretty good. I think appetite should probably be duress but some games removing a thrag, maw, or obzedat is relevant. Appetite was very helpful in the control matchups at making sure a verdict or tough planeswalker didn't come down. Also just having any tagerted discard was incredibly helpful for the hand information, even in my GR aggro match to know how to use my removal. Cremate was a really good maindeck card, battles against Rites, Snapcaster, one-half of lingering souls, undying, etc. Its been a big surprise and the cantrip on it has been invaluable alongside of sign in blood.
- Mutilate might just be the best wrath in standard. This thing is so great against a field of tough to kill guys with indestructible and regen and the fact that it relies on swamps lets you set it up nicely. One game I got a 7 for 1 with it leaving the only 2 guys left on board my 2 giant demons to swing on the next turn for 12. A lot of times Pack Rat can get big enough too or you can play ghost quarters to control it's level.
- Ghost Quarter was really good! Gives you an out to Wolf Run, Township, Vault, Drownyard, and Desolate Lighthouse, and one game I just went after duals to keep him off cards that required 2 of a color. Probably should be a 3-of, but you for sure don't need 4.
The board had a lot of supplement cards and also some variety so I could get a better feel for things after my initial online testing this week. Underworld Connections is still the fucking nuts, Travis I think you're right we might be able to mainboard 1, although its a dead draw 80% of the time against aggro. Curse was a good addition for me, I wish it was faster but its still brutal. Staff of Nin as a one of was sweet, it made my opponents life very hard. It kills snapcaster, tokens, threatens their life, and draws you cards. Pretty much everything you want against control.
- Between Ravenous Rats, appetite, duress, and shimian I had a lot of discard and it really pushed the control decks into a top deck mode. Their game plan gets much harder when you know what they have, you get their counters out easier, and you threaten to kill them in a few turns with a demon or rat. Mind Rot might actually be really good in the mono black version somewhere in the 75.
Cons:
- typhoid rats only served as a road block against aggro. He's pretty awful.
- the deck needs some more fat. Demon is so good but he needs company that can pressure your opponent and there isn't a lot in strictly black although I do want to try and experiment
- Nighthawk might not be the worst thing. I'd love some lifegain in the aggro matches and there's a lot of cards that could eat removal made for him.
- Lingering Souls obviously can be good against you, cremate, staff, and curse help a little but one of the 3 mana -1/-1 sweepers might be helpful or enacting a better strategy. This problem is solvable though and wasn't that bad.
Bottom line. Fun to play, a nice break from red.
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Post by JediCheese on May 4, 2013 2:39:12 GMT -5
John/Travis,
Do you mind if I bogart the deck and play it in some standard grinders on MTGO?
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Post by John Galli on May 4, 2013 7:52:31 GMT -5
Dude go crazy, I'd love more data. Its a funny deck, you should enjoy it
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Post by JediCheese on May 5, 2013 1:56:25 GMT -5
FYI, I just looked the deck up on MTGO traders and it costs $16 online (and $10 of it's Mutilate!). If I can get MTGO running acceptably under a VM, I'll likely be playing this deck over the next few days.
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