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Post by JediCheese on Nov 13, 2012 1:01:40 GMT -5
I want to get into standard (it would allow me to kick some ass on Saturday in the win a box tournament).
My major issue is I don't want to pony up a C note for Snapcaster Mages, Falkenrath Aristocrat, or Bonfire of the Damned.
Right now, I would love to play a U/W/x deck but you can't make it work without Snapcaster Mages. My other thought is playing a R/x aggro deck with Ash Zealot but I can't find a good list.
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 13, 2012 11:03:18 GMT -5
Chris, not sure what your current stock of Standard cards looks like right now. Are you just opposed to buying those three cards, or are you opposed to dropping a ton of cash on Standard cards in general? If it's the former, there are a lot of options that don't involve those three cards. I thought that most of the UW Miracles lists were playing without Snapcasters. You could try building something around Entreat + Terminus... You could also try this Bant list that LSV recently recorded: - www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-lsv-bant-standard-8-man/- www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-lsv-bant-standard-8-man-2/...or this Esper list by Michael Hetrick: - www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-shipitholla-esper-standard-event/There's a lot of big Angels, Thragtusks, and Planeswalkers, but there are no Snapcasters, Aristocrats, or Bonfires. If your problem is that you don't want to drop a bunch of money on Standard in general, well, that's kinda how that format works...and subsequently the reason I simply don't play it anymore. It's just not a good financial investment. <insert dead horse joke here> None of my Legacy stuff is gonna rotate anytime soon...  |
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Post by John Galli on Nov 13, 2012 11:09:26 GMT -5
Chris I've kept a fairly good pulse on the Standard scene since States, and I can discuss options with you. The first thing I'll warn you is that Standard is probably at it's most expensive point in a long time which is one of the reasons I'm not playing even though I'd like to be at the moment. The cheapest deck is by far RDW. I don't think it's a top 8 deck, although it's often been a top 16 deck. Zach took my build to 4-4 at States with no playtesting and making a fair amount of play mistakes, but now that the midrange decks are getting settled in, it's probably going to be much tougher to just speed rush your opponent. Anyhoo, here are the main builds I'd recommend observing- RDWsales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50351 (Pyreheart Wolf build inspired by Adrian Sullivan) sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50003 (the fairly stock list) magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1062259 (the stonewright / thundermaw build - probably my favorite although I do think pyreheart deserves inclusion) The deck's biggest weaknesses are running out of gas and running into two turns of lifegain. If someone gets a turn 4/5 thragtusk and isn't already dead at that point followed by more lifegain, you are usually screwed. On the other hand, the deck is very quick with many opening hands and traitorous blood out of the board is your strongest card. The other weakness though is a very lackluster sideboard, there just isn't enough cards in red right now for something proper. You're probably better off splashing black to add some more utility out of the board. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jund, U/W/x Control, and Rites (Reanimator) are decks in the $700-1,000 range, so if you're not keen on spending that much then these are automatically out for you. Next up, the newcomer to the seen, Delver 2.0- U/W Flash and U/W Azorious AggroThis deck placed three players in the top 32 of SCG Dallas last weekend and is the hot deck of the week. It's very much a Delver incarnation, although these pilots decided to forgo Delver (I think he probably gets inclusion within a week or two). Other than Snapcasters, Resto Angels, and Lands though, it's actually one of the cheaper decks on the market, coming in around $200-300, possibly less if you can scout deals. It's a tempo deck, so the worst thing against you is probably cavern of souls which just isn't even that relevant anyway. mtgpulse.com/event/11276#156738UW Azorious Aggro is the other major player in this area; I watched it take down 1st place at our Wisconsin states and it's still crashing it's weight around at recent tourneys like the TCG 5k in Chicago this past weekend and SCG Dallas. The deck is very consistent, which is it's biggest strength and it gets haymaker-ish in a hurry. It can run out of gas and lose the long game if the opponent is prepared, but otherwise is a solid choice. Prep your sideboard to beat Jund and Control. mtgpulse.com/event/11276#156735G/W AggroI don't think this deck has legs, it looks amazing on paper but I've seen it lose all over the place and it hasn't placed any high finishers on a consistent basis. This is basically what you're looking at though, with some variance at the 3/5 drops between lists- magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1068530Esper Tokens and Junk TokensThese lists are getting a little old and long in the tooth, but any token strategy has some resilience and a very good "complete game". The latter of the two was piloted by my friend Brandon to 2nd place at States- magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1055665 (esper) magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1058903 (junk) The article you don't want to see from a price standpointmagic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10843----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Things I noticed when playing at States: 1.) Artifacts are of very high value at the moment. There has been little hate put into decks against them, this is starting to see a slight compensation but no where near enough. The keyrunes are absolutely bonkers good in this format, chromatic lantern is now seeing play in a variety of control decks, pithing needle is effective against planeswalkers and is cheap to buy / you may already own, etc. Play artifacts. 2.) U/W/x Control with thundermaw is really good, so is Bant Control with heavy angel of serenity and armada wurm. You have to be able to beat these strategies. 3.) People don't realize it, but bonfire is as strong as it ever was. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gavin Verhey.deckGavin has been writing some great articles as of late for Wizards, and getting a lot of reader submission. It's worth reading his last 3-4 articles on Standard if you want something off the radar- www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Archive.aspx?tag=ReConstructed&description=ReConstructed------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MTGO Premier EventsAlways a good place to scout ideas, this IS the metagame www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnline.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/whatshappening |
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Post by JediCheese on Nov 13, 2012 12:12:47 GMT -5
I don't mind dropping some money on a standard deck. I just don't want to drop money on shitty cards. Unfortunately, only two $25+ cards make the Modern Cut: Snapcaster and Liliana. I don't see any of the current crop of $25+ cards keeping value. I see the U/W decks becoming more tempo-control rather than midrange. I think there is a U/R tempo control deck that uses a core of Stromkirk Noble, Rakdos Shred-Freak, Ash Zealot and Rakdos Cackler. Then you add burn and counters. The problem is that once you splash blue, you should also include Snapcaster. Then if you go green for Rancor to give your creatures more weight, then you should also include Thragtusks. By this time you might as well play the $600 deck that includes every card over $20: magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10843 |
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 13, 2012 13:46:51 GMT -5
I don't mind dropping some money on a standard deck. I just don't want to drop money on shitty cards. Unfortunately, only two $25+ cards make the Modern Cut: Snapcaster and Liliana. I don't see any of the current crop of $25+ cards keeping value. I see the U/W decks becoming more tempo-control rather than midrange. I think there is a U/R tempo control deck that uses a core of Stromkirk Noble, Rakdos Shred-Freak, Ash Zealot and Rakdos Cackler. Then you add burn and counters. The problem is that once you splash blue, you should also include Snapcaster. Then if you go green for Rancor to give your creatures more weight, then you should also include Thragtusks. By this time you might as well play the $600 deck that includes every card over $20: magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10843This is another reason I stopped playing Standard. Even if I won the lottery and could buy a playset of every legal card in the format, there's still only about 2-4 decks that actually compete week in and week out. I'd rather play a format with a little more variety than that. |
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Post by John Galli on Nov 13, 2012 16:16:21 GMT -5
Chris all the U/R decks that you described that I've seen haven't put up good finishes. Not sure where that's becoming a "deck"
Personally, I love standard so I completely disagree with you Travis. I don't care if it's expensive, the format is a blast to play IMO. I'm sorry you've been on the weepy train regarding it for the last year or two but it's still a good format even if it's expensive and doesn't return a lot for your investment.
That all said, you're right Chris that it's going to be hard to obtain cards that will retain value, although at least the standard season is still very much in infancy so those cards should be standard legal for quite some time yet allowing you to get in multiple tournaments. Snapcaster is a pretty good investment, and there's really not a lot else you're investing in after that with a U/X deck that is costing a huge amount more. Lands never go out of style, Miracle cards are used in U/W Legacy, and the other stuff is uncommons and commons. Restoration Angel is about the only exception which reasonable for EDH and probably will still retain about a $5 value (it's currently around $10).
But alas, I feel like I'm wasting my time with the typing I did before and now and that this is falling on deaf ears. And you ask for help with standard and then say you know the format after you asked. . .
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Post by JediCheese on Nov 14, 2012 20:44:08 GMT -5
But alas, I feel like I'm wasting my time with the typing I did before and now and that this is falling on deaf ears. And you ask for help with standard and then say you know the format after you asked. . . Sorry you feel that way. I appreciate the thoughts, unfortunately they track exactly how I feel (spend big $$$ or get your ass kicked). Other than the few RDW decks you posted at the top of your post, they all include C note cards (usually Thragtusk or Snapcaster). Even Thundermaw Hellkite and Falkenrath Aristocrat are crazy expensive and help make the red decks (both are $20+ cards). Plus the red decks aren't all that great and I can't even pretend they are competitive. I would love to spend some time to work on them to refine them (per my crazy Ad Nauseam burn deck) but I don't think it'll work out. Just may have to acquire some of the basics, then go R/G aggro when Gatecrash comes out. |
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Evan
Full Member
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Post by Evan on Nov 15, 2012 2:34:58 GMT -5
Resto is seeing a lot of modern play as well. I think standard is great right now - went 7-1 over two weeks with 5 color omniscience combo.
Cheers
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Post by John Galli on Nov 15, 2012 9:13:27 GMT -5
I mean I looked at that U/W Flash deck on mtg pulse and it says cost $195. What exactly do you expect a competitive tournament deck in a format to cost Chris? Compared to Modern and Legacy where decks are minimum $200-300 and often $1,000+, not sure what you were expecting. I agree, the RDW decks aren't competitive and I wouldn't buy them either (although I already did at the start of the season since back then it was $30 and I already had a Thundermaw) New B/R list out this morning (1st)- mtgpulse.com/event/11298#157045 |
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Post by JediCheese on Nov 15, 2012 12:35:44 GMT -5
Ya... I'm going to call BS on the $195. Actually putting the cards into TCG player results in a cost of $320 (including shipping). SCG puts the price at $220 minus Sphinx's Revelation or Geist of Saint Traft (which are out of stock),
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Post by John Galli on Nov 15, 2012 14:03:45 GMT -5
Yeah no you're right, must have been old prices they have on there, not sure what the story is.
Either way, $300 is still not $600-700 that the other decks we discussed our. I believe your quote was "My major issue is I don't want to pony up a C note" and that is hardly a C note
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Post by JediCheese on Nov 16, 2012 3:08:45 GMT -5
Found out there's a win a case tournament this Saturday with split to top 8. *sigh* Usually the store doesn't have great turnout, so I would have a chance with a well piloted RDW. Out of all the bad cheap decks, I think the best idea is a R/B deck: mtgpulse.com/event/11305#157176Also, I spent exactly $2 on a Legacy Affinity deck today to finish it off. Might still need another Tezz, but the rest I got. |
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Post by Travis Lannoye on Nov 16, 2012 9:07:51 GMT -5
Chris, if you ever get bored with Affinity, you should try the UB Tezzeret list I posted in the Legacy forums. Baleful Strixes are awesome, and there's a very real chance at a turn 2-3 Tezzeret or Jace.
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Evan
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by Evan on Nov 16, 2012 14:12:31 GMT -5
There's a sealed PTQ on saturday at misty this weekend, and a standard tcg 1k on sunday this weekend as well, if anyone is feeling like playing.
Cheers
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Post by John Galli on Nov 16, 2012 17:46:35 GMT -5
I might do the sealed on sat, haven't decided yet. Wish it wasn't $40 but I do want to see all the old magic players since it's been penned as a reunion on facebook
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